Mayerling79 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 (edited) I just wanted to share the following two videos with you guys. It illustrates that beauty/perfection is a subjective matter and that although expectations might have changed for some young dancers, technique doesn't obviously mean 6 o'clock leg or hyperextended splits and bravura doesn't achieve all... 1- La Bayadere PDD of the Shades by Isabelle Guerin and Laurent Hilaire (Ballet de l'Opera de Paris, ca. 1992?): I especially like the 'small' supporter splits in the air (0:57 and 1:21) and the low coupe just after. 2- La Bayadere PDD of the Shades (to compare, start from 1:21) by Svetlana Zarakhova and Roberto Bolle (2009?): Her sense of music is amazing (3:08 developpe a la second with the violin), being married to the violonist Vadim Repin and we can't detach our eyes from her. However I find her hyperextended splits not that pretty (2:12 and 2:34). So...French sobriety or Russian virtuosity, I like watching both and seeing how they both interpret the roles and dance the choreography. Emotion is a delicate thing and there is definitely not a straight-forward solution for it. It is something extremely personal and like in music, that is why it is so great having access to so many variations of the same choreographic piece. Edited June 2, 2013 by Mayerling79 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 ChocChip, it wasn't you in particular I was addressing ChocChip, I didn't mean to suggest that the Royal Ballet men don't do 180-degree grands jetés, increasingly most do. What I was trying to say is that I don't mind seeing only 175 degrees from male dancers in general (whereas I do expect at least 179, preferably 180 degrees but no greater from women in tutus). I should add that I'm no expert, just a ballet-watcher. I love seeing the Bolshoi and Mariinsky on their visits to London, they have done so much to raise my expectations of ballet over the years. Personally, I think I object to 180 degrees whoever's dancing it! Anjuli and lots of other people on this forum know a lot more about it that I do, but surely by definition a jeté is a "thrown" step with a takeoff from one leg, an airborne arc and a landing on the other leg, not a "hoick yourself up into the air and do the splits"? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocChip Posted June 2, 2013 Author Share Posted June 2, 2013 ChocChip, I didn't mean to suggest that the Royal Ballet men don't do 180-degree grands jetés, increasingly most do. What I was trying to say is that I don't mind seeing only 175 degrees from male dancers in general (whereas I do expect at least 179, preferably 180 degrees but no greater from women in tutus). I should add that I'm no expert, just a ballet-watcher. Grand Tier Left, I understood what you meant the first time. I was trying to say that I didn't have much observation about RB male dancers, so I didn't know what standards of technique "are set" by the best male dancers there. I am sorry if my speech may seem to sound impolite from time to time but English is not my native language. I am not an expert either. When I started the topic I kept saying "lifting of the leg". Thankfully to Janet McNulty who posted a diagram at #4 now I know it is called "developpe a la second". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 As I was taught it - by a pre-Vaganova Russian teacher - a grand jeté was meant to soar - not split. I think that what happened was the men were much more capable of making the height of the arc hover for a moment in the air. The women, generally speaking are not quite as able to achieve this moment - so they began to split it. I have no authority for this conjecture - just watching it over the years. I have seen live performances of the complete La Bayadere by POB, Bolshoi, Mariinsky, and ABT. Perhaps other companies as well - I'm not sure if I've seen it done by RB. The most breathtaking for me was the Kingdom of the Shades danced by POB. When all those women stood on stage in a simple arabesque - absolutely still - I could visually see before me 400 yrs of classical schooling. The other companpies were marvelous, too - but somehow that moment belonged to the dancers of the Paris Opera Ballet. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTL Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 As I was taught it - by a pre-Vaganova Russian teacher - a grand jeté was meant to soar - not split. I think that what happened was the men were much more capable of making the height of the arc hover for a moment in the air. The women, generally speaking are not quite as able to achieve this moment - so they began to split it. ..... That would explain my personal preferences, male and female: rightly or wrongly, I like the illusion of impetus over anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I also recall reading somewhere that Nijinski - known for that momentary pause in the air - said he achieved it by inhaling at the height of the jump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocChip Posted June 3, 2013 Author Share Posted June 3, 2013 Anjuli, your expert opinion is always appreciated!I would like to ask you to have a look of this video and if you have the time to make a brief assessment of it. The video shows Evgenia Obraztsova and Vladislav Lantratov perform Grand Pas from Don Quixote on "Big Ballet" TV show (finale/gala concert). For those who don't know the background of these ballet dancers: Evgenia is Vaganova-trained and spent many years with the Mariinsky. They didn't want to give her leading roles and she moved to Bolshoi. Now she is a principal dancer there. Vladimir is trained in the The Bolshoi Ballet Academy and now he is first soloist with the Bolshoi.I thought it was appropriate to post this video here because both these two dancers dance leading roles at the Bolshoi at the moment and (hopefully my next words will sound right) they present the Bolshoi's present image to the world. Bolshoi's level of technique and artistry, etc...If you can't open the link above, there is the exact same video here (it has worse quality though): And one question. I am quoting Anjuli_Bai here:"As I was taught it - by a pre-Vaganova Russian teacher..." I don't know what pre-Vaganova Russian teacher is. A teacher trained in ballet technique prior to the Vaganova method Agrippina Vaganova developed? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 ChocChip thanks for posting the links. You need to be aware that we tend to err on the side of caution in posting video links unless they are definitely from official sources. Otherwise there could be copyright issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I watched the film clip - and of course the dancers did this PDD splendidly. However it is not enough to look at a PDD and judge the dancers. One has to see them dance something that pulls at the heart as well. The "ah" is as important as the "wow." This pDD is only half the equation - the "wow." I also found the floor pattern and the background very distracting. Yes, by pre-Vaganova I mean before Vaganova. My first teacher was a student of two of the principal dancers who came West with Diagelev: Alexandra Baldina and Theodore Koslov. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocChip Posted June 3, 2013 Author Share Posted June 3, 2013 ChocChip thanks for posting the links. You need to be aware that we tend to err on the side of caution in posting video links unless they are definitely from official sources. Otherwise there could be copyright issues. JanetMcNulty, I have read the Community Guidelines. I am wondering why you give a notice only to me but not to Mayerling79 as well. After I read the Guidelines I didn't post any links. When I wanted to post the "Esmeralda age 17", I put only the caption here. Then I saw Mayerling79 posted two video clips of La Bayadere on this topic from unofficial sources and she posted another one with the Petit Mort on the "Nureyev & Friends" topic and nobody of the moderators said anything to her or warned her about her posts. And I've seen some other videos on other old topics as well (again from unofficial sources). So I figured I could post one link here related to this topic. Please let me know what the rules exactly are because I start to feel that rules don't apply to everybody the same way. If you say no youtube links at all it should apply to everyone shouldn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 ChocChip - I didn't say "no Youtube", I mentioned exercising caution in publishing links from non-official sources. I have looked back up the thread and you are quite right, I should have mentioned in to Mayerling79 too. Sorry for that. It's a fine line to tread - I have myself posted links to Youtube and Vimeo but only where they are links published by the company (companies) themselves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocChip Posted June 3, 2013 Author Share Posted June 3, 2013 I feel discriminated against on this forum!That's the reason I deleted my location! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayerling79 Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 The following article might be useful to us... http://www.blogherald.com/2007/07/09/the-copyright-risk-of-embedding-youtube-clips/ You are probably right, Janet, and I should definitely check the provenance before embedding YouTube links. Have a nice evening everyone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I feel discriminated against on this forum! That's the reason I deleted my location! ChocChip, there is no reason for you to feel discriminated against. Everyone agrees to our Acceptable Use Policy when they sign up to this forum, and as Moderators we can and will moderate posts by members from any country, regardless of nationality, where necessary. If we ask that a thread remains on topic, we are usually not only addressing one Forum Member. :-) We have to moderate so that the forum runs smoothly and so that members do not contravene the Acceptable Use Policy. If you - or any other Forum Member- contravenes (even unwittingly) the Acceptable Use Policy then we moderate or guide accordingly. There is no discrimination involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Sorry you feel like this ChocChip ......there are so many topic threads going all at once and sometimes very fast.....look at the Alina and Johan story today....that I'm sure the Moderators with the best will in the world miss the odd thing. I hope you will put your location back again! I enjoy seeing where people are situated. I may decide.....if I can work out how...to put my location on...though its mentioned in various threads etc. I would send you a smiley face but can't make them appear on this forum yet!! X 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Where your name is on the top rhs of the screen, click on the little down arrow. It will have a number of options including update. I think the location is in the general overview. For emoticons just hit the smiley on the top bar on this box and a range of them will appear for you to choose! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Thanks Janet....except dont seem to have a smiley in the top bar....it could be because I'm on an IPad ? Maybe you have to be on a main computer for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Possibly. If you've got the "more reply options" button on the bottom rhs side that may bring it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Hi have just pressed something which said "enable emoticons" by going into more reply options....still need to see where they actually are though can't find any nice little faces! Trying from my own keyboard again ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Looks like its now allowing me to use my own emoticon keyboard at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Whoops. Gone again obviously have to go to more reply options to add my smileys.....sorry no more now or I'll be getting a warning for going way off topic ???????????? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayerling79 Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 On this smiley aparte.... LinMM, just type ":" and then ")". Once the message posted, this will create a smiley : ) with out the space = Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 ":" ")" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Sorry when I typed that this is what happened! I think I should go to the test sight now to sort this out 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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