Negative ballet perceptions

[Pavlala]

Received Pronunciation

[Anjuli_Bai]

As the outsider here - I thought you might like to know that I was the object of study for a graduate student's thesis on accents. Since I was born and grew up in Philadelphia (a hotbed of a certain Revolution - sorry 'bout that) I retain my Philly accent though I've lived in San Diego since 1964.

 

It turns out that a small area of Philly speaks the closest to the original accent of the English settlers. One would think this would occur in Boston - but apparently not. If I recall correctly, it was East Anglia from which my accent comes. Not all of Philly is so lucky. South Philly sounds more like the Bronx in New York City. Just the small area of Philly from which I originate speaks as the original British settlers. So, accents are different not only across a country but even within a city.

 

If I spend some time talking to a person who shares my accent, I feel subconsciously comfortable - like I'm home. And my accent gets more pronounced.

 

So, what does this have to do with dance? I've found that when people know I'm from Philly they are not surprised at my involvement with dance. But if they only know I'm from San Diego - they are surprised. They envison this lovely vibrant city as a backwater of palm trees and a zoo. Well, I've danced just about everywhere here - but not at the zoo.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Anjuli_Bai

[Tulip]

Ah but there you see, not all Liverpudlians use the phrase going for a bevy, I live just outside Liverpool and none of my friend use that term and funnily enough neither do any of our staff who are from Liverpool use that term. I wonder if that is an old fashioned term now? It's the same with the south, there are so many accents and mostly not classed as posh. The only accent that I would class as talking with a plumb in your mouth or in other words putting on an accent is someone who spoke like Margaret thatcher or the queen. I can tell by someone's vocabulary if they have had a good up bringing and a good education regardless of where they come from.

[Jan McNulty]

Well everyone knows I am a Scouser and "bevy" is not a word I or anyone I know uses.  I am aware of the expression but I think it has gone out of fashion.

 

Mr David Nixon OBE (AD of NB) teases me about my accent, which I consider a privilege!  I do say loooook, boooook and cooook, which is a dead giveaway in identifying Scousers.

[LinMM]

Yes well I was in Liverpool 1969-1972 so quite likely that Bevvy and butty have gone out of fashion. I'm pretty sure the "bullring" just of Brownlow Hill will have gone by now too. I started teaching at Pleasant Street Board School and it really was still called that in1969! When I went for my interview and saw this dreadful looking school with bars at the windows I assumed there would be a new school out the back!! There is a new school there now on the other side of the road. However I loved teaching there it was tough but the kids were still more respectful generally then they seem to be today in comparative schools another thing that has changed with the times.

Anyway digressing a bit too far from the topic thread probably which is ballet being seen as an "upper class" activity and whether the mother in the article genuinely believes this or just thinks anyone with a southern accent is upper class which is of course nonsense. And also the fact that she felt she shouldn't speak because of her accent which is of course ridiculous as well especially as apparently society has hopefully moved on from all this!! However there's an article in the Sunday times news review just this weekend which shows perhaps not as much as we would have hoped! (Cameron's Crew)

[Jan McNulty]

Still OT but we do still eat butties mined in the Jam Butty Mines in Knotty Ash!

 

Going back to the articles, I would love to know how accurate the quotes are.

[Picturesinthefirelight]

Stokies read booooks and cooook too!

[Tulip]

Janet do you fancy a chip butty with oodles of butter mmmmm

[Jan McNulty]

Oh Tulip don't!  We had fish and chips from the chippy last night for a treat!

[Pas de Quatre]

Tulip - I hope you put lots of malt vinegar on them too. When I was growing up it was the end of night treat in my local pub after darts matches in the local league. They would bring out trays of chips and piles of buttered bread, you made your own!

[Jan McNulty]

You couldnt possibly have chips and chip butties without malt vinegar!

[Tulip]

Doesn't vinegar make the bread wet?

[Jan McNulty]

Oh no, not unless you leave them standing around. 

[Tulip]

I will give it a try next Friday. We should all do it chip butties and a glass of wine I'm looking forward to it ha ha.

[toursenlair]

Well everyone knows I am a Scouser and "bevy" is not a word I or anyone I know uses.  I am aware of the expression but I think it has gone out of fashion.

 

Mr David Nixon OBE (AD of NB) teases me about my accent, which I consider a privilege!  I do say loooook, boooook and cooook, which is a dead giveaway in identifying Scousers.

 

being Canadian he should have a few distinctive vowels of his own, typically the one in house and out, though he may have lost it by now.

[Fiz]

Received pronunciation.

[tomuchtallent]

Butties and bevy, haha, I'm originally from London and we use to say them as well.

I could kill for a butty but no English style fish and chip shop here!!

[porthesia]

I'm originally from the Midlands and we used to go for a bevy and have a chip butty -  anyone else remember sarnies?

[hoobydigger]

I was brought up in North London and used the word bevy often - and sarnie/butty

[Evie]

I just can't help myself from commenting on this thread. I am from South Yorkshire (born in Doncaster), from generations of coal mining ancestors. I have lived in Devon for 30 years still retaining my strong Yorkshire accent. All my children have 'southern accents', including my ds at vocational school. His old dance teacher, thought he spoke with a Yorkshire accent (he's never been there in his life) and the other boys in his year thought he sounded posh!! I would like to point out that Robert Parker and David Bintley are both from Yorkshire too and Mr Parker has definitely retained his Yorkshire accent. I don't mind 'Posh' people, I know quite a few. It's snobby people that look down on other's that get my back up and there are plenty of them in Yorkshire too!!!

[LinMM]

Well I must say I'd never heard of the words Bevvy and butty till I went to live in Liverpool never heard them used in Surrey or London area at that time ......1969-1972. I've just emailed my friends who taught with me in Liverpool (now in Cambridge) to check I havent lost it and the word bevvy was in common use in Liverpool at that time but also friends who still live in Upton on the Wirral to see if anyone in their circles still uses this word now or not!! Definitely could be a generational thing.......we do all have our bus passes!!

 

Janet I don't know about the quotes. Just re-read the article and I suppose you have to trust that the quotes are the mothers.....on the other hand maybe she is quietly fuming that she has been misquoted and wrong impression given!! You do,have to be careful with journalists and tv reporters who can appear to be on your side but a programme/newspaper report might not always be weighted the way you think it's going to be.

[Nana Lily]

Regional accents and grammar are not linked. Folks with strong regional accents can have good or poor grammar. All accents are regional.

 

NL

[Nana Lily]

I just can't help myself from commenting on this thread. I am from South Yorkshire (born in Doncaster), from generations of coal mining ancestors. I have lived in Devon for 30 years still retaining my strong Yorkshire accent. All my children have 'southern accents', including my ds at vocational school. His old dance teacher, thought he spoke with a Yorkshire accent (he's never been there in his life) and the other boys in his year thought he sounded posh!! I would like to point out that Robert Parker and David Bintley are both from Yorkshire too and Mr Parker has definitely retained his Yorkshire accent. I don't mind 'Posh' people, I know quite a few. It's snobby people that look down on other's that get my back up and there are plenty of them in Yorkshire too!!!

David Bintley and Robert Parker both have northern accents. They are extremely articulate and eloquent public speakers as is Desmond Kelly who does retain a hint of his South African accent. Accents and dialect are what the listener perceives, and that differs from person to person. Grammar is grammar, it is right or wrong, correct or incorrect and not linked to accent. All countries have different accents and diallects, they are what makes our world interesting, varied and colourful, they are part of the human race and should be embraced.

 

I don't see what this subject has to do with ballet anyway which is a visual art and is verbalised in French!!!!

[LinMM]

Nana Lily I think this topic thread was started by Ribbons in response to an article she had read(she posted the link) which implied that most people doing ballet were upperclass.....she was concerned this would give the wrong impression to the general public especially with regards to funding.....that's the ballet connection but if you read the article you will see how this thread also got on to accents and use of local Lang etc!!

[Jan McNulty]

I'm originally from the Midlands and we used to go for a bevy and have a chip butty -  anyone else remember sarnies?

 

My Dad always used to say sarnies but I think he was quite unusual here in that.

 

Speaking of which, some years ago a group of us went to Aberdeen to see Northern Ballet and during our week of exploring this glorious area we found the Smoke House at Uggi.  We bought some smoked salmon and had smoked salmon sandwiches (butties doesn't sound right) for lunch for the rest of the week.  To this day we refer to them as "Aberdeens"!

 

I had an Aberdeen on Saturday while watching NB in Norwich!

[Tulip]

We have a business in County Durham Barnard Castle, I just love the people their accents and their very different dialect. West be a very small country but we are so diverse. They say things like stop your twining, I didn't know what they were on about and like wise they dont know some of my expressions, we all have such a laugh. The only thing is some of my expressions are so out of date such as antwacky, I thought younger people knew that word but my own children have never heard of it. Janet do you know what it means?

[Jan McNulty]

Ancient and shabby?

[LinMM]

What a lovely word Tulip!

[Jan McNulty]

Let's start a revival of "antwhaky"!

[taxi4ballet]

Going back to the original topic of the thread - I've just remembered a quotation from somewhere:

 

'Never let the truth get in the way of a good story'

 

From personal experience of our local newspaper - articles like this are often written by journalists with absolutely no prior knowledge or interest in the subject matter. They are looking for an 'angle' from where they can approach the news item, and I have been somewhat taken aback by the way the article is worded (particularly the quotes) when it eventually appears in print.

 

A friend of mine was phoned by a journalist on one occasion, and when told 'no comment' he said, 'Oh, OK I'll just make something up then'.

[LinMM]

That could make me quite murderous!! Are they allowed to do this then.....or rely on the fact that most people wouldn't be able to afford to take up a libel challenge!

[Jan McNulty]

That could make me quite murderous!! Are they allowed to do this then.....or rely on the fact that most people wouldn't be able to afford to take up a libel challenge!

I suspect the latter!

[Fiz]

That is certainly what that journalist that interviewed me did. She told some whopping lies and then had the brass neck to say that I'd told her those things. I assuredly didn't, because they never happened!

Edited May 7, 2013 by Fiz