Welsh Vocational schools.. or rather lack of

[Welshydancer]

This is probably a bit brave for a first time post, but I’m asking in case I’m missing the obvious or there’s a hidden dance school in the mountains I’ve been oblivious to (highly possible)…..

 

Why is there a lack of full time vocational dance training in Wales aside from FE colleges/ He institutes ? I know Rubicon dance company run a BTEC course and there are lots of local colleges who do performing arts/dance course, but there seems to be no option than to go to England for Welsh dancers at 16/18, certainly if you want to do a diploma.

 

 

[Jan McNulty]

Hello @Welshydancer and welcome to the Forum!

[Raquelle]

Watching with interest...my dd is in vocational school in England for this very reason 🥲. Wish there was a Welsh alternative! 

[Dancing unicorn]

Hiya

and welcome to the forum.

We've not long finished our training journey  and all of it had to done in England! From RBS JAs programme, to full time vocational and then on to College. There is absolutely no provision to study in wales at all! The only nearest to the wales border is Hammond in Chester, where we would highly recommend 🩷

[Peanut68]

Was also going to mention how close Hammond is to the Welsh border…. Also can recommend (experience of lower school - though quite a long time ago now - though know a happy performing arts pupil currently in their third year of lower school) Pretty good travel connections to Wales too I think. 

Just to also add, think I saw somewhere that Ballet Boost have opened a centre in Wales…

Edited Sunday at 15:32 by Peanut68
To add

[Dancing unicorn]

Yes, South Wales!

we never get anything in north wales 🤣

[Pas de Quatre]

Don't forget Ballet Cymru in Newport. They have an Associate scheme, summer school and a pre professional programme.

[Mummy twinkle toes]

A full time vocational lower school was going to open in 2011 but Coleg Gwent would not change their price. The man who was going to invest pulled out. It was a shame as children had turned down other places to go there: https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/8322258.abergavenny-ballet-school-opens-doors/

It ran just as associates then but not sure how long that lasted. No one else seems to have wanted to try it.

[Peony]

The population is only 1/20 of the English population so perhaps wouldn’t be financially viable. I suspect it’s also quicker and easier for many to travel to some of the English facilities than it is to travel within wales

[Welshydancer]

Thanks all for your replies. We’ve worked with Ballet Cymru and NYDC both are great companies but alas no full time provision! 
I never realised about Coleg Gwent … how annoying!

I appreciate that the population is lower, but there are MANY vocational schools (both boarding and day schools) in England, not just for dance but for other performing arts when you consider there is RBS, Elmshurst, Hammond, Tring, Central , Northen , Conti then the likes of Arts Ed, Wilkes, Performers College, Brit School, Emil Dale etc and Wales hasn’t got one it’s a bit of a poor show really. I think we’d settle for one - maybe in Aberystwyth by the sea and so the North/South don’t fight

 

Also unless you live pretty close to the border or are going to a central London school, live in Cardiff, travel to schools in England are pretty dire/long. Ammanford is a 7 hour return train journey to Tring with 8 trains to catch or a 9 hour return car journey whereas Aberystwyth/Cardiff is a 1.5 hour car journey each way.

I have seen Arts Council Wales are conducting a dance review - details on their website, it would be really good if we could get some more voices to get across how dire it is for vocational training. I’m rather jealous of our Scottish pals’s Dance School of Scotland, I think something similar would be a great accessible option! 

[Raquelle]

28 minutes ago, Welshydancer said:

Thanks all for your replies. We’ve worked with Ballet Cymru and NYDC both are great companies but alas no full time provision! 
I never realised about Coleg Gwent … how annoying!

I appreciate that the population is lower, but there are MANY vocational schools (both boarding and day schools) in England, not just for dance but for other performing arts when you consider there is RBS, Elmshurst, Hammond, Tring, Central , Northen , Conti then the likes of Arts Ed, Wilkes, Performers College, Brit School, Emil Dale etc and Wales hasn’t got one it’s a bit of a poor show really. I think we’d settle for one - maybe in Aberystwyth by the sea and so the North/South don’t fight

 

Also unless you live pretty close to the border or are going to a central London school, live in Cardiff, travel to schools in England are pretty dire/long. Ammanford is a 7 hour return train journey to Tring with 8 trains to catch or a 9 hour return car journey whereas Aberystwyth/Cardiff is a 1.5 hour car journey each way.

I have seen Arts Council Wales are conducting a dance review - details on their website, it would be really good if we could get some more voices to get across how dire it is for vocational training. I’m rather jealous of our Scottish pals’s Dance School of Scotland, I think something similar would be a great accessible option! 

Thanks Welshy Dancer....I'll definitely do the review. I've often thought it is disappointing the lack of provision here....we live in Cardiff but still then my daughter had to move away at 11 to access training....the associates are only monthly and NDC I think for older children? Summer training with ballet cymru is fab - but again it's just a week a year! I often wondered why there is no elmhurst young dancers or rbs associates in Wales....great ballet boost have started something now. There are some talented dancers here! 

[Welshydancer]

The more who join the review the better! 
It’s great Ballet Boost are coming to Wales, but the trouble is when you have to balance full time education, normal dance classes/syllabus, associates and the boost courses it all clashes because it’s all so spread out which is why some of us have to have look over the border. Annoyingly even then you still are likely to be met with ‘never heard of them’ when you do go on to Voc Ed.

What baffles me is that even our only national conservatoire (for 18+) Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama doesn’t offer a dance course? 
 

[Peanut68]

4 hours ago, Welshydancer said:

 

…..how dire it is for vocational training….

Vocational training is by no means the be all end all though I appreciate it really can seem the only option based on geography & provision of quality training accessible to you & that you can feasibly attend (travel if need for parent to accompany not always possible with jobs/money issues I realise) Also on money - if a funded place at vocational school is secured it can save money on the costs otherwise incurred (although in our experience, not necessarily as do many it seems then still spend extra ££££ each year to attend additional associates/masterclasses/

private coaching/holiday courses/competitions)

It sadly can seem a rich kids game wether training ‘at home’ or in vocational school. 
If the latter feels the only possible way to provide a dancer with necessary hours/standard then really really research to find ‘best fit’.

I do often think the happiest dancers are those that didn’t go to the ‘main’ vocational schools. And I actually think it’s pointless until st least 14 in many ways (although trouble then is how do you possibly match the insanely advanced standards of overseas students competing for places? Personally - I think there should be quotas schools - and companies - should have to meet to ensure enough UK dancers get opportunities.)

Time again? I’d have stayed local but topped up with private lessons & done every possible quality intensive - esp. things like 5 week overseas ones for over 16’s. 
Comparing costs? Reckon would’ve been similar for us as voc school as it was so far away it cost a fortune in travel (& time) plus parent portion of fees & extras….

Much will depend on other work/care/family responsibilities of a parent too. I know I’d have come up against massive family upset if I’d spent any more time away from family home being a ballet taxi! 
Good luck. 

 

[Jewel]

MDS does not fund Welsh schools.  This is an issue for music JD's also and is part of the reason why RWCMD have had to scrap their Junior Department provision.  The English music colleges such as RAM, Guildhall etc are funded by MDS. 

Edited 20 hours ago by Jewel

[Raquelle]

2 hours ago, Peanut68 said:

Vocational training is by no means the be all end all though I appreciate it really can seem the only option based on geography & provision of quality training accessible to you & that you can feasibly attend (travel if need for parent to accompany not always possible with jobs/money issues I realise) Also on money - if a funded place at vocational school is secured it can save money on the costs otherwise incurred (although in our experience, not necessarily as do many it seems then still spend extra ££££ each year to attend additional associates/masterclasses/

private coaching/holiday courses/competitions)

It sadly can seem a rich kids game wether training ‘at home’ or in vocational school. 
If the latter feels the only possible way to provide a dancer with necessary hours/standard then really really research to find ‘best fit’.

I do often think the happiest dancers are those that didn’t go to the ‘main’ vocational schools. And I actually think it’s pointless until st least 14 in many ways (although trouble then is how do you possibly match the insanely advanced standards of overseas students competing for places? Personally - I think there should be quotas schools - and companies - should have to meet to ensure enough UK dancers get opportunities.)

Time again? I’d have stayed local but topped up with private lessons & done every possible quality intensive - esp. things like 5 week overseas ones for over 16’s. 
Comparing costs? Reckon would’ve been similar for us as voc school as it was so far away it cost a fortune in travel (& time) plus parent portion of fees & extras….

Much will depend on other work/care/family responsibilities of a parent too. I know I’d have come up against massive family upset if I’d spent any more time away from family home being a ballet taxi! 
Good luck. 

 

I think the problem is Peanut is there is a lack of any type of local training in Wales....most of the associates are once a month so would be difficult...be great if there was more provision locally x  

[Kerfuffle]

Hi Welshy if looking over the border, non vocational,   I would strongly recommend Bristol Russian Ballet School. They offer daily classes at a very high standard, good enough for those with talent to progress to great upper schools and also a Youth Ballet Company at weekends. There are loads of opportunities to perform and the teachers are excellent. The style is Vaganova.