Joseph Sissens interview in The Guardian

[DD Driver]

40 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

Fonty, I think nowadays and certainly for the last 10 years or more, the leadership of RB, ENB, BRB, NB and SB would say they don't represent only the UK but the world. They recruit dancers from all over the world who are willing to apply, and they also commission choreographers from around the world.

 

 

It seems a lofty ambition for these British companies to represent the world!

I don't like their chances & it seems a loss to visit them, from the bottom of the world, and not experience the best of British culture.

Edited Thursday at 22:36 by DD Driver

[Dawnstar]

1 hour ago, Emeralds said:

The phrase can be problematic. It is generally used to refer to anyone not white. It is also considered by many to be offensive/not wise/not polite to use it nowadays. However, if someone uses it to refer to themselves I suppose that's OK.

 

Oh, I'm evidently very out of date then as I was under the impression it was the latest "correct" phrase to use & had only recently made its way over here from America. Maybe I'm mixing it up with something else.

[Linnzi5]

13 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

 

Oh, I'm evidently very out of date then as I was under the impression it was the latest "correct" phrase to use & had only recently made its way over here from America. Maybe I'm mixing it up with something else.

That's what I thought too?

[alison]

It's certainly widely in use at present.  But then I've been around long enough to know that what's "in" and what's "out" in that respect tends to change from time to time.

 

With regard to the Wilis, if, like me, you were watching from the extreme ends of the horseshoe at the ROH, it was certainly very disconcerting, at various points, to get a sudden flash of brown leg up to near-hip every now and then as the dancers jumped.  With more straight-on viewing angles, I doubt it would have been anything like as noticeable.

[Jan McNulty]

At one company’s Nutcracker I saw last year one of the snowflakes wore dark tights and shoes.

 

I noticed once (I saw 5 performances) but it didn’t matter an iota!

 

 

[JNC]

13 hours ago, Pas de Quatre said:

I must say I think it depends on the role. Act 1 Giselle, yes tights and shoes to match flesh. Act 2 pale pink. In a recent RB recording when the Willis stand in line a d light comes from above, the dancer (I think it was Marianna Tsenbenhoi) wearing darker tights appeared to have no legs or feet as they were shadowed by the tutu.

I agree with @Fonty and @Pas de Quatre has nailed it above. I didn’t mention it at the time as I thought it might be a controversial topic but yes I noticed the one pair of dark tights in act 2 Giselle back in 2021 (and yes I believe it was Alix not Marianna who was wearing the “skin coloured” tights, I believe Marianna was actually wearing the whiter tights). 

 

My distinction is that it’s about a character costume and whether that character is a real person or not and or part of a group/group costume. For example, I agree in act 1 of Giselle the browner tights and non pink pointe shoes really doesn’t affect things at all and support this change to having more variety in tights/shoe colours to be inclusive of dancers representing a variety of diverse backgrounds on stage - they are playing village girls, alive with costumes that aren’t all identical. 
 

In Act 2 however we have the Willi - mythical dead creatures all stripped of individuality and very much a cohesive group. Their outfits/costumes are a uniform here. No one really has the same skin tone of the tights/white dresses as they are too white! Also, to play devil’s advocate slightly, why stop at the shoes and tights - why not have a more brown/beige dress? Of course this wouldn’t happen as it would spoil the overall cohesive aesthetic of the scene and the unity? I really do believe the white tights and shoes here are part of the costume/uniform for the dancers and so shouldn’t be changed.

 

I would argue similarly about the swans in act 2 swan lake, the shades scene in La Bayadere etc. But have no problem with darker tights/shoes in act 1 swan lake and ballets like Romeo & Juliet or Manon. 

I think where dancers have identical costuming and are not necessarily individual characters but represent a cohesive group (swans, Willi, shades etc) the point is to have the same uniform - the same as perhaps a school uniform or army uniform. 
 

In this analogy, of course I think it’s great that Sissens got a cornrow sparkly wig as it’s showing that the sugar plum prince is an individual character who is slightly different character depending on who is dancing them them! 
 

At the end of the day, I do think aesthetics is important and the “ballet blanc” aesthetic is something iconic in ballet. I think there’s something to be said for white the brightest colour making a strong impact against a dark background and under dramatic stage lighting; it’s been noted before about how it can be difficult to see the black tights legs of the prince in swan lake act 3 sometimes.
 

I fully support diversity of dancers on stage, and of course ballet should be open to all, and I would hope nothing I’ve said above would be interpreted as me thinking otherwise. I want the most talented dancers on stage, I don’t really care what they look like personally, and I think part of the job is to know when to separate their individual personalities/beliefs from particular characters/costumes required for a particular role? 

 

I think bar a tiny, hopefully shrinking minority, I think most ballet fans do want dancers of all backgrounds on stage and for ballet to be inclusive. I don’t think this is incompatible with also wanting to retain the ballet blanc aesthetic and particular costume choices that emphasise the cohesion/unity of the group when everyone is dancing the same movements? Most of ballet doesn’t require this aesthetic but I think for the few quite iconic moments it should be respected and retained. I admit I have little interest in seeing the shades of Bayadere wearing different coloured tights! (Would you even be able to see the legs with the low lighting?)

 

at the end of the day it may not bother others, and others may disagree. Fine. But I think to jump immediately to anyone thinking the ballet blanc aesthetic should be retained for traditional reasons therefore has a problem with more diverse dancers on stage or is racist I think isn’t the case, although I’m not denying there is still racism in ballet (and the world!) so some may sadly be coming from this perspective. 

Edited yesterday at 07:37 by JNC

[Pas de Quatre]

Eloquently put, JNC.

[Fonty]

11 hours ago, Emeralds said:

If children don't see people who look similar to them participating and instead of receiving encouragement like Sissens did, are told or strongly hinted that people "like them" will not be interested/not be any good at/not be able to afford the funds to continue pursuing that activity, they don't return. 

 

If anyone running any sort of activity gave those sorts of hints to children, then they should be banned immediately.  That is truly shocking and just plain bad teaching.  I suspect teachers like that might also ostracize the overweight and the clumsy. 

 

@JNC  Agree with everything you say.  You have expressed my own thoughts perfectly. 

 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 09:30 by Fonty

[LinMM]

I didn’t really want to comment on this topic as generally speaking ( and probably as most here are)  am mainly focussed on the quality of the dancing or character interpretation rather than what shoes or wigs  the dancers may be wearing so not sure I even noticed a wili in different coloured tights etc however as general good theatrical common sense I think @JNC has expressed things perfectly above. 

[Dawnstar]

It will be interesting to see how Sissens is costumed & made up when he dances the White Rabbit in Alice.

[LinMM]

Well I have to confess to hating most wigs so am more than pleased to see a dancers natural hair …if it works for the role …..Id even be happy to see a fringe or two lol!! (But won’t go into my virtually “anti bun” stance expressed elsewhere) 

I can’t remember the White Rabbits costume from last time will have to look it up! I can remember Alice, the Mad Hatter, the Queen of Hearts and the caterpillar but not much else I’m afraid. 

[San Perregrino]

54 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

It will be interesting to see how Sissens is costumed & made up when he dances the White Rabbit in Alice.

He posted a photo to Instagram Stories yesterday. His costume is all white, ears to tail. Appropriately as his character is the White Rabbit.

[Emeralds]

On 26/09/2024 at 23:57, Dawnstar said:

 

Oh, I'm evidently very out of date then as I was under the impression it was the latest "correct" phrase to use & had only recently made its way over here from America. Maybe I'm mixing it up with something else.

I don't think you're out of date, Dawnstar, but like other terms, a phrase trying to put too many groups of people together can have difficulties. From what I gather, "people of color" was more well accepted in the United States, while BAME (Black and Minority Ethnic) was more widely accepted in the UK, until it was felt by some organisations that "BAME" was too imprecise. I prefer BAME to 'people of colour/color' myself. I think the word colour is even more imprecise - a East Asian person from a northern city can have the same skin colour and hair colour as a dark haired French person who doesn't stay in the sun (take close up photos of just the hair and just the cheeks and the colours are indistinguishable) but they are clearly of different ethnicity or heritage. The word colour is also somewhat inflammatory historically (perhaps more so in Britain than in the United States). Others in the UK have complained that the term is not an improvement on previous ones. I don't think there will ever be a term that everyone is happy with, and hopefully one day - as Sissens hopes - society will be  compassionate, equitable and equal, that these terms will no longer be needed.

[HopelessMummy]

Coming back to the initial topic, I just want to say that Joe Sissens is amazing and a wonderful role model to young global majority dancers. He volunteered his time to teach and work with young dancers on the Chance to Dance project by the ROH, running from rehearsals to do this and has spoken very candidly about his experiences to them. He is a courageous advocate and I'm so pleased he is doing so well at the Royal Ballet

[DVDfan]

When I was at an ordinary state primary school 60 years ago, the head teacher played us a track of classical music in assembly every morning. When my children were at a similar type of school, the attitude of the teachers was that children wouldn't be interested in that sort of thing. So the only music the kids got was pop which they already listened to anyway. 

I don't know if this problem affects people from certain ethnic backgrounds more than others, but it's a failure to understand that children don't need to be taught to do the things children do - they already know how to do that. School should be introducing them to other things, age appropriately of course. This is called education and it used to be what schools did.