Quo vadis Vadim?

[MAX]

It's certainly also a question of aptitude, of a certain quality of movement, for example a back capable of having the curves demanded by a more neoclassical or even contemporary dance.

 

Proof, too, that just because you're a classical dancer (even one of the very best)  doesn't mean you can dance anything.

Edited August 31 by MAX

[Scheherezade]

1 hour ago, emmarose said:

 

It's something I often bemoan on here and in general, that the ROH have in their hands one of the finest classical dancers and not one choreographer has created anything on him. It seems senseless to me and a great waste that there will be nothing left behind after his great career. 

 

 

Not only a waste, Emma Rose, but a tragedy. 

 

59 minutes ago, Angela said:

Without, unfortunately, having seen Muntagirov too often, his repertoire seems very limited. The most modern thing he has ever danced seems to be Forsythe’s Vertiginous Thrill, please correct me if I’m wrong. He does this of his own choice and I absolutely understand him, some great Russian ballerinas did the same to keep their pure classical style...

For most classical virtuoses or Danseur Nobles I have seen, it made them so much better to cross some borders in their thirties. Vladimir Shklyarov, for example (compare his Lavrovsky-Romeo before and after his Cranko-Romeo), Friedemann Vogel of course, who grew so much by dancing Béjart, Neumeier, Goecke et. al…

I’m not sure that Vadim has a problem with neo-classical works, Angela - Wheeldon’s For Four is one that comes to mind, and would that the RB performed Bejart, Neumeier, Goecke etc instead of Toonga et al. Vadim was rather splendid in Song of a Wayfarer and Le Train Bleu in his time at ENB and I would love to see him in Van Manen, Forsythe - and what about Maillot’s rather enjoyable Taming of the Shrew - but the opportunity to perform these works- or any 20th century repertoire- is non-existent at the RB.

[alison]

3 hours ago, FionaM said:

Vadim mentioned at a book signing last year that what he laments is that no one has created a new ballet on him.  

 

I often wonder if choreographers are intimidated by his abilities.

[JNC]

@OnePigeon has summed it up.
 

We don’t know what Vadim fees about the current RBO repertoire and casting and it’s not really my (our?) place to speculate.

 

As already mentioned the problem ultimately is with the selection of repertoire, and also the lack of new proper ballet choreographers. I wouldn’t say Vadim’s repertoire is limited - after all RBO (in theory?) is meant to be a CLASSICAL ballet company first and foremost. (Whether this is still the case or O’Hare is trying to officially pivot in a different direction is another conversation.) 

 

if RBO fully performed it’s broad classical/neoclassical repertoire and had a proper ballet choreographer I’m sure we’d see Vadim a lot more on stage. A waste of Vadim, a waste of the other classical principals, a waste of opportunity to find and develop the next Ashton/Balanchine etc…at least I’m not wasting my money on it! 

[Balletfanp]

11 hours ago, Angela said:

Without, unfortunately, having seen Muntagirov too often, his repertoire seems very limited. The most modern thing he has ever danced seems to be Forsythe’s Vertiginous Thrill, please correct me if I’m wrong.

Off the top of my head, and in addition to the ones already mentioned by @scheherazade  above - Within the Golden Hour, Human Seasons, Afternoon of a Faun, Danses Concertantes, Acosta’s Carmen (if you count that). And at ENB, Petite Mort as well as Songs of a Wayfarer. There may be others I can’t immediately recall.

 

It’s really only the very contemporary stuff, e.g. McGregor, that he doesn’t dance, both by preference (can’t say I blame him!), and he also says in his book that he doesn’t feel his physique and classical technique would do that kind of choreography justice. A sensible decision, I feel. I wouldn’t say his repertoire is all that limited.

Edited September 1 by Balletfanp

[Nina99]

8 hours ago, Balletfanp said:

Off the top of my head, and in addition to the ones already mentioned by @scheherazade  above - Within the Golden Hour, Human Seasons, Afternoon of a Faun, Danses Concertantes, Acosta’s Carmen (if you count that). And at ENB, Petite Mort as well as Songs of a Wayfarer. There may be others I can’t immediately recall.

 

It’s really only the very contemporary stuff, e.g. McGregor, that he doesn’t dance, both by preference (can’t say I blame him!), and he also says in his book that he doesn’t feel his physique and classical technique would do that kind of choreography justice. A sensible decision, I feel. I wouldn’t say his repertoire is all that limited.

I would absolutely agree with this and I would add to the list, Winter’s Tale In which he has played both Leontes and Florizel - neither of which are purely classical roles. When the winters tale was premiered in 2014, Vadim was in the second cast as Florizel along with Beatriz Stix-Brunel as Perdita. In his book he mentions how although he and Beatriz rehearsed in the same studio with Stephen McRae and Sarah Lamb on whom the ballet was made,  Wheeldon’s choreography introduced innovative moves for Florizel that were based on McRae’s style and preferences. This made learning the role even harder for Vadim, but he adapted brilliantly IMO to moves that were very novel to him at the time.

Edited September 1 by Nina99

[Angela]

12 hours ago, JNC said:

a waste of opportunity to find and develop the next Ashton/Balanchine

 

I fear it's not that easy - find one, develop him, voilà. Please, could you name some choreographic talents who work purely classical and who were overlooked until now by all ballet directors? You cannot command classical work from a young artist, they work as they like, growing up with all the works they see, all the development in modern ballet, all the new movements, the fusion with ethnical dance, Hip Hop - it's such a huge variety to choose from and to combine, so why should they limit themselves to the Ashton/Balanchine vocabulary? 

[Missfrankiecat]

8 hours ago, Balletfanp said:

Off the top of my head, and in addition to the ones already mentioned by @scheherazade  above - Within the Golden Hour, Human Seasons, Afternoon of a Faun, Danses Concertantes, Acosta’s Carmen (if you count that). And at ENB, Petite Mort as well as Songs of a Wayfarer. There may be others I can’t immediately recall.

 

It’s really only the very contemporary stuff, e.g. McGregor, that he doesn’t dance, both by preference (can’t say I blame him!), and he also says in his book that he doesn’t feel his physique and classical technique would do that kind of choreography justice. A sensible decision, I feel. I wouldn’t say his repertoire is all that limited.

 

I seem to remember him being even clearer that, in his opinion, the differing physical demands of combining performance of classical and contemporary at a high level are more likely to lead to injury.  This makes sense to me.

[Emeralds]

I think an opportunity was missed not casting Vadim as Lensky in the first cast of Onegin with Nunez/Clarke/Takada which would be a huge box office draw and create great interest. He's danced with Takada many times in the past and they gel very well as a pairing. Bracewell with Naghdi/Ball/O'Sullivan would also be a cracking cast, and Leo Dixon could be in a subsequent cast. Vadim could then do Onegin in May-June.

 

Also, he has danced Jack/Knave of Hearts successfully before and it's disappointing that he's not reprising it in Alice's Adventures in Wonderland this time. The Prince in Cinderella has very little dancing so basically Vadim will be dancing the equivalent of one grand pas de deux, one adagio and a few leaps for 3 evenings in the first 6 months of the RB season, according to the current published casting, and that's it! 

 

With regards new choreography, strange but true thing - Vadim has danced David Dawson's choreography and Wheeldon's choreography, but missed out on Forsythe and Neumeier (both programmed at ENB only after he left and not currently danced by the main RB company). Hope he will be in Romeo and Juliet, Onegin and Alice in March to July. 

[Lizbie1]

10 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

With regards new choreography, strange but true thing - Vadim has danced David Dawson's choreography and Wheeldon's choreography, but missed out on Forsythe and Neumeier (both programmed at ENB only after he left and not currently danced by the main RB company).

 

Not quite true: he has danced Forsythe's Vertiginous Thrill, as Angela has reminded us.

Edited September 1 by Lizbie1

[Emeralds]

6 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

Not quite true: he has danced Forsythe's Vertiginous Thrill, as Angela has reminded us.

Thank you Lizbie1 - meant to say "Forsyrhe and Neumeier at ENB"  but was distracted while someone was talking to me and left that out! Yes, indeed he was in the first cast of TVTOE in the 2017 RB revival but I was thinking of ENB's productions of Approximate Sonata, In the Middle Somewhat Elevated, Blake Works 1 and Playlist (either the Track 1, 2 version or EP version) and Neumeier's Spring and Fall, which he would have been great in and I think he would have enjoyed. 

 

Just remembered- Twyla Tharp's The Illustrated 'Farewell' is another that would suit him (the lead role), and if they ever revive it, Act 2 of her Mr Worldy Wise (Stuart Cassidy or William Trevitt's role) as well. Both modern creations but still classical ballet. 

[OnePigeon]

3 hours ago, Angela said:

 

I fear it's not that easy - find one, develop him, voilà. Please, could you name some choreographic talents who work purely classical and who were overlooked until now by all ballet directors? You cannot command classical work from a young artist, they work as they like, growing up with all the works they see, all the development in modern ballet, all the new movements, the fusion with ethnical dance, Hip Hop - it's such a huge variety to choose from and to combine, so why should they limit themselves to the Ashton/Balanchine vocabulary? 

Whilst it is true that choreographers will choreograph in a style of dance they wish to, I’m sure it isn’t the whole picture that it is purely down to young choreographers simply choosing not to choreograph in a more classical style.  Liam Scarlett certainly knew how to do this, whether or not his work was to one’s taste, and I wonder how his career and choreography would have developed had the tragic situation not ensued.  

The genius of the early and mid century choreographers such as Ashton, Macmillan, Balanchine and Robbins came at a time in history that will probably not be repeated; it was a time of great creativity across the arts sector and a time when it was perhaps easier to innovate as things hadn’t been taken so far within the art form and there was greater scope to try new things.  Will there be another Ashton?  It’s possible, but perhaps those days are over.  However, it doesn’t mean ADs shouldn’t commission new works for certain dancers or within a classical style and I can’t believe there isn’t anyone out there who is unable to collaborate with an artist like Vadim and produce something that showcases his many strengths.  If there truly is nobody out there with these capabilities or desires, I offer myself up right now to give it a go! 
 

No one believes choreographers should only stick to the Ashton/Balanchine vocabulary, or be stuck creating pastiches of Petipa or Ivanov, but surely it’s possible to create work that builds upon these founding choreographers within the classical idiom without taking it so far outside the tradition of the style and steps that it resembles something completely different and alienates a whole portion of your audience?  Whilst not a huge Ratmansky fan, I do believe Ratmansky, Dawson and Peck can certainly create classical based pieces and didn’t Valentino Zuchetti choreograph a neo classical piece that was viewed favourably here? Is his talent being nurtured, I wonder?  I’m sure more knowledgeable people can think of other examples.

 

Perhaps there are artists out there not being given the opportunities because their style is out of favour with ADs and taste makers and those who wish to constantly force change? The problem is, it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy and in the end (in fact I do believe we’re pretty much there now) we may well end up with work so diluted from the classical idiom, that we’re left with the depressing offer of hybrid or heritage.
 

 

Edited September 1 by OnePigeon

[JaneHartley]

4 hours ago, Angela said:

 

I fear it's not that easy - find one, develop him, voilà. Please, could you name some choreographic talents who work purely classical and who were overlooked until now by all ballet directors? You cannot command classical work from a young artist, they work as they like, growing up with all the works they see, all the development in modern ballet, all the new movements, the fusion with ethnical dance, Hip Hop - it's such a huge variety to choose from and to combine, so why should they limit themselves to the Ashton/Balanchine vocabulary? 

To be honest, I think they clearly intended to seek to develop Liam Scarlett as the more 'classical' resident choreographer since his style was greatly influenced by MacMillan/Cranko and others which would have contrasted with the McGregor contemporary dance (much of it can't even be called ballet). 

If we leave aside the fact that the RB has some serious questions to answer on how they handled Liam which has never been addressed (I can't think of many national institutions today that could vaguely accuse someone of something that gets them blackballed by their profession across the globe leading to their suicide and then be allowed to sweep it under the carpet), there was a clear intention to take a talented young choreographer and actively develop them through commissions shorter and then longer to mould a choreographer in keeping with the english ballet tradition. They appear to have given up on this approach when they lost Liam. They potentially they might argue that there isn't an easy replacement, but if they RB isn't commissioning and scheduling classical/neo-classical ballet as their main repertoire how will we develop the talented choreographers. 

I think it is shocking really the amount of talent that the RB has had that it hasn't created on properly, including Vadim. Alina, imo the greatest ballerina of her generation is another. Similarly Nunez has been overlooked for full lengths.

[MAB]

7 minutes ago, JaneHartley said:

If we leave aside the fact that the RB has some serious questions to answer on how they handled Liam which has never been addressed (I can't think of many national institutions today that could vaguely accuse someone of something that gets them blackballed by their profession across the globe leading to their suicide and then be allowed to sweep it under the carpet)

 

I blame the cancel culture, it is insidious.  I always believed he had it within him to create a masterwork, but we'll never know now.  You don't have to go back that far to realise that behaviours frowned upon today were tolerated in the past.  I'm not saying bullying was justified and I've been told of dancers leaving the profession because of overbearing ballet masters but rightly or wrongly there was more tolerance back in the day.  When the mob descends on an individual with the pitch forks and flaming torches I wonder if self righteous anger shouldn't be tempered by reason and forgiveness.  

[maryrosesatonapin]

1 hour ago, OnePigeon said:

...didn’t Valentino Zuchetti choreograph a neo classical piece that was viewed favourably here? Is his talent being nurtured, I wonder?  I’m sure more knowledgeable people can think of other examples.

 

I do feel Zucchetti shows promise and hope he will be given further opportunities - not only is his choreography rather lovely, but he chooses the most gorgeous music (ie pieces that I enjoy myself!)

Going back to the main topic - I completely agree, we are not seeing enough of Muntagirov. His dancing is utterly beautiful and he is IMO one of the greatest male dancers in the company for many a year, decades even. If I could wave a magic wand I would like to see him in a ballet such as Lacotte's Le Rouge et le Noir - if only we had a Lacotte in the UK creating works such as this.

[Tango Dancer]

31 minutes ago, maryrosesatonapin said:

I do feel Zucchetti shows promise and hope he will be given further opportunities - not only is his choreography rather lovely, but he chooses the most gorgeous music (ie pieces that I enjoy myself!)
 

 

I like the way Zucchetti choreographs.  I also really liked the piece Ben Ella did for NB last year.  It was traditional but I liked the music and the steps he picked.  So I think he has potential and I'd be interested to see more from him.  

[JNC]

@Angela - there are other comments that detail this better than I can but perhaps “find” is the wrong word I used before.

 

as for why choreographers should stick to a purely classical style - well no one can force anyone to do anything they want to (to a point, money talks) but given the royal ballet is fundamentally a classical ballet company I’m sure there are some talented people out there who are talented enough and interested in choreographing purely classical style works (unless we really do think classical ballet is a non-living evolving art form with only the past glory days and repertoire to be revived?). 

 

If you budding choreographers saw the Royal Ballet investing in proper balletic work (rather than more contemporary dance styles) they may be more inspired. If there’s no money or appetite to make classical/neoclassic works that are “ballet” and not contemporary dance then people will not try and choreograph those works! If RBO gave a choreographer in residence position to someone who is interested in choreographing classical-style works (not someone more influenced by hip hop dance - a very valid dance form but in my opinion not something RBO should be funding when there is a limited money pot and they are a classical company) then maybe “finding” such choreographers, and certainly developing them would be easier. 
 

Fundamentally it’s the Royal Ballet company not the Royal dance company - there are many other great companies exploring the broad spectrum of dance. That’s not to say that we shouldn’t have some crossover sometimes for the Royal Ballet as I think cross-pollination can lead to interesting works and be great for dancers and audiences to explore (eg Khan’s Giselle, Bausch etc) but this should be the odd work not what feels like all or the majority of new work being commissioned. 
 

Fundamentally I’d argue there’s also a general problem with supporting developing new “ballet” talent - Wheeldon and McGregor have been supported by the Royal Ballet for 12 and 18 years now respectively. Wheeldon is sort of ballet, but I’d argue McGregor isn’t. I wonder if it’s time for one to be “let go” (which doesn’t stop any future collaborators but probably means we don’t get a new work by them so regularly, or have to have them represented in the repertoire every single year) to support someone new. Yes I admit if I loved either of these choreographers I wouldn’t suggest this but even so, I think a case is to be made for a bit of a shake up. In an ideal world maybe they’d have the money to fund both ballet and other types of work but that’s not the reality of the finances.
 

Ultimately in my opinion I would prefer RBO to fund and support more balletic choreographers, works etc and not start becoming a contemporary “inspired by ballet or whatever other dance” company. 
 

 

[Silver Capricorn]

Vadim has an injured leg, that's why he didn't perform in Cape Town. He also cancels the October tour in Japan.

[Fiz]

Vadim says on Facebook that he has plantar fasciitis which is no fun. That might explain why he hasn’t been cast first run. 

[Sim]

7 minutes ago, Fiz said:

Vadim says on Facebook that he has plantar fasciitis which is no fun. That might explain why he hasn’t been cast first run. 

I have this at the moment and it is indeed painful.  I read that even with doing all the exercises it can take three months to go away.  🤦🏻‍♀️😡.  I hope Vadim’s is better soon.   

[Naomi M]

On his Instagram he mentions that he is unable to perform in Japan this October. 

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/C_Z9e-zMnD8/?igsh=MWs1Y2ZsZ203cGsxcw%3D%3D

[Balletfanp]

Poor Vadim. I’ve had it and it is very painful. My chiropractor sorted me out pretty quickly though with ultrasound and massage.

 

However, it looks as though it may be more than just plantar fasciitis as, painful as it is, you don’t generally have to wear a boot for it .

[Fiz]

29 minutes ago, Sim said:

I have this at the moment and it is indeed painful.  I read that even with doing all the exercises it can take three months to go away.  🤦🏻‍♀️😡.  I hope Vadim’s is better soon.   

Oh Sim! I feel for you. Get well soon. 

[Nina99]

I had PF earlier this year and it is certainly very painful. At least Vadim will have access to a top class medical team to help him recover when he gets back home. I just hope he doesn’t need surgery.

 

It seems particularly unfortunately and that Vadim and Marianela should both get injured at the same time. Still, at least Vadim looks cheerful on his IG. 

[Sim]

1 hour ago, Balletfanp said:

Poor Vadim. I’ve had it and it is very painful. My chiropractor sorted me out pretty quickly though with ultrasound and massage.

 

However, it looks as though it may be more than just plantar fasciitis as, painful as it is, you don’t generally have to wear a boot for it .

That's what I was thinking; although I have it, I don't need a boot!

[oncnp]

2 hours ago, Balletfanp said:

Poor Vadim. I’ve had it and it is very painful. My chiropractor sorted me out pretty quickly though with ultrasound and massage.

 

However, it looks as though it may be more than just plantar fasciitis as, painful as it is, you don’t generally have to wear a boot for it .

 

Since his career depends on his feet, the boot and crutches may just be a temporary precaution to prevent further injury until he sees the PTs at home. 

Edited September 2 by oncnp

[LinMM]

Yes I was surprised to see him wearing a boot in his Facebook post but as he is a dancer I decided it was some extra precaution for him. 
Some dancers grow extra bony bits in their feet near stress points which do sometimes require operating on. 

[Emeralds]

Oh no- poor Vadim and poor @Sim: that must be so painful. Hope you both recover from it very soon. Wishing Marianela Nunez a speedy recovery as well. 

Edited September 2 by Emeralds

[Richard LH]

Unfortunately.......https://www.instagram.com/p/C_Z9e-zMnD8/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

[Richard LH]

On 01/09/2024 at 11:16, Emeralds said:

I think an opportunity was missed not casting Vadim as Lensky in the first cast of Onegin with Nunez/Clarke/Takada which would be a huge box office draw and create great interest. He's danced with Takada many times in the past and they gel very well as a pairing.

Indeed...Vadim and Akane have paired up wonderfully as Lensky and Olga previously. But seeing her dance this with William Bracewell should also be fantastic....

[Richard LH]

6 hours ago, Sim said:

I have this at the moment and it is indeed painful.

Oh dear Sim hope you get better soon. At least you are in good company!

Apologies that I duplicated by posting this news on the News and Information forum....but it looks like that was quickly removed by an eagle-eyed Moderator!

Edited September 2 by Richard LH
Duplicate post

[Scheherezade]

On 01/09/2024 at 11:48, Emeralds said:

Thank you Lizbie1 - meant to say "Forsyrhe and Neumeier at ENB"  but was distracted while someone was talking to me and left that out! Yes, indeed he was in the first cast of TVTOE in the 2017 RB revival but I was thinking of ENB's productions of Approximate Sonata, In the Middle Somewhat Elevated, Blake Works 1 and Playlist (either the Track 1, 2 version or EP version) and Neumeier's Spring and Fall, which he would have been great in and I think he would have enjoyed. 

 

Just remembered- Twyla Tharp's The Illustrated 'Farewell' is another that would suit him (the lead role), and if they ever revive it, Act 2 of her Mr Worldy Wise (Stuart Cassidy or William Trevitt's role) as well. Both modern creations but still classical ballet. 

I am often distracted, or leave things out, Emeralds, and since I seldom bother to check the content - mea culpa - my  posts come through brimful with senseless auto-correction and with all their errors written large. 

And coming back to Vadim, I think he would be great in most of the more contemporary canon, apart from the largely unappetising diet being currently fed to us by the powers that be at the RB, for which I am totally at one with his decision not to take part. 

[Scheherezade]

Apropos the discussion on classical choreography generally, and whilst genius is, for want of a better expression, “God-given” rather than acquired or contrived, the opportunity for that God-given talent to be nurtured and encouraged has to be sign-posted and made available and the RB does not seem to want to provide that opportunity in any shape or form.  

If the company is willing to take a punt on someone with a background in hip-hop, why is it so opposed to giving the same leg up to classical ballet choreographers? I cannot believe that there is no-one out there with sufficient talent and enthusiasm for the company to encourage and promote. What steps have been taken to identify those individuals and what will it take for the situation to improve?