Royal Ballet Promotions, New Joiners and Leavers, Summer 2024

[LinMM]

Maybe I am just getting a bit soft in my older age!! 
I suppose it’s the generalisation of a dancers partnering skills to not being up to scratch.
I can see that sometimes things might not have been so good at a particular performance but to generalise means that person is not a good partner to any dancer they are partner to at most performances!! 

I personally can’t think of anyone who is that bad in the RB. 

[oncnp]

7 minutes ago, LinMM said:

Maybe I am just getting a bit soft in my older age!! 
I suppose it’s the generalisation of a dancers partnering skills to not being up to scratch.
I can see that sometimes things might not have been so good at a particular performance but to generalise means that person is not a good partner to any dancer they are partner to at most performances!! 

I personally can’t think of anyone who is that bad in the RB. 

 

Again fair enough. I've seen him several times. He's a superb solo dancer, but as a partner at this point, not so much

 

A comment of @Jan McNulty also made me think that as the RB moves away from classical repertoire (at least this season), perhaps partnering isn't/shouldn't be as important as I think it is. 

 

And one last thing (I promise!). Although we'll never know I wonder what those established Principals who already get so few performance opportunities think about the new promotions. 

Edited Sunday at 12:01 by oncnp

[LinMM]

I don’t know what the established Principals will think of these two promotions!
But  I wonder are they actually that unhappy guesting with other companies? Facebook  posts I’ve seen show them ( particularly Fumi and Vadim) looking very happy at guest appearances and the accolade and reception they are getting etc.

So perhaps not being so busy at home  gives them the opportunities to do this. 
Perhaps these are questions to be asked when giving interviews …how happy are they with the Company workload and do they do guest appearances abroad out of choice or necessity! 
 

[bridiem]

4 minutes ago, LinMM said:

I don’t know what the established Principals will think of these two promotions!
But  I wonder are they actually that unhappy guesting with other companies? Facebook  posts I’ve seen show them ( particularly Fumi and Vadim) looking very happy at guest appearances and the accolade and reception they are getting etc.

So perhaps not being so busy at home  gives them the opportunities to do this. 
Perhaps these are questions to be asked when giving interviews …how happy are they with the Company workload and do they do guest appearances abroad out of choice or necessity! 

 

I'm sure (and hope) that they do enjoy guesting. But it shouldn't be the case that they guest more than they dance at the ROH! And yes, I'd like to know what current principals really feel about all this; but realistically, no-one bites the hand that feeds it and I'm sure they would on the whole be very positive and diplomatic about it all.

[Missfrankiecat]

21 minutes ago, LinMM said:

I don’t know what the established Principals will think of these two promotions!
But  I wonder are they actually that unhappy guesting with other companies? Facebook  posts I’ve seen show them ( particularly Fumi and Vadim) looking very happy at guest appearances and the accolade and reception they are getting etc.

So perhaps not being so busy at home  gives them the opportunities to do this. 
Perhaps these are questions to be asked when giving interviews …how happy are they with the Company workload and do they do guest appearances abroad out of choice or necessity! 
 

Forgive me if I misunderstand the position, but don't the dancers get paid for guest appearances with other companies?  Whereas, they are on a fixed salary with the company.  I am aware, not least from a Sarah Lamb interview, where she contrasted the benefits of a RB contract which paid for the full 52 weeks with the position of N American companies who only offer contracts covering weeks dancing and expect the dancers to fund their own holiday periods or times when not available to the company to dance, that this is a huge benefit.  I assume guest appearances are additional income.  So, it would be a surprise if principals, especially those in high demand elsewhere, would be remotely bothered by fewer contractual performances in London if it frees them to to undertake lucrative top-up work elsewhere.

[LinMM]

So they won’t be at all bothered by the new promotions then!! Not that I personally thought they would have been anyway. 
However the choice referred to in my post wasn’t  about money …..but whether they were guesting because they might not have enough dancing to do in the Company!! ( Some people are suggesting there are now too many Principals in the Company so not enough dancing to go around) 

Also my first sentence in that post was in response to a previous post so taken as it stands without the reference could completely change the nuance!! 

Joe and Calvin have been in the Company for some years now and am sure nobody resents their progress. 

Edited Sunday at 13:56 by LinMM

[oncnp]

4 minutes ago, LinMM said:

So they won’t be at all bothered by the new promotions then!! Not that I personally thought they would have been anyway. 
 

 

 I read @bridiem (perhaps incorrectly) comment as that as they wouldn't say so in a public forum as criticizing your employers is rarely a good career move. 

Edited Sunday at 13:55 by oncnp

[Candleque]

5 hours ago, DVDfan said:

Although he is of course not infallible my own feeling is that we have to assume that the AD knows his company and his job, and has good reasons for all his decisions, most of which he cannot share with the public.

One question I struggle with in my own balletomane journey is the air of secrecy around casting, part of the power imbalance between dancers (the talent) the Artistic Directors and choreographers (the deciders).

Why can't some of their decisions be shared publicly? 

Hollywood casting decisions are often debated in the press and directors quoted about their choices. In pro sports, the head coach or manager faces the press before and after every game. He or she is grilled about their starting line-up, substitutions, draft picks and trades. Athletes are people with families and feelings (like dancers) but this is an open and accepted part of the job at that elite level. Every story about the selection of an Olympic team includes the talented athletes who didn't make the squad. We, the fans, are allowed to ask why.

Please don't flame me for comparing ballet to basketball (I'm not). And I am NOT suggesting ADs hold a press conference at every performance, or publicly dissect an individual dancer's faults. But in an age where fandoms are no longer just passive consumers and transparency helps build their passion, ballet seems stuck in a different century. 

[bridiem]

11 minutes ago, oncnp said:

 I read @bridiem (perhaps incorrectly) comment as that as they wouldn't say so in a public forum as criticizing your employers is rarely a good career move. 

 

Yes, that's pretty much what I meant. But I have no idea what they might feel - they may all be perfectly happy with the situation! I think that if I'd been named a principal of the RB - perish the thought - I'd be pretty disappointed if I then got very few chances to perform with the RB. But I'm not a dancer...

[Fonty]

7 minutes ago, Candleque said:

One question I struggle with in my own balletomane journey is the air of secrecy around casting, part of the power imbalance between dancers (the talent) the Artistic Directors and choreographers (the deciders).

Why can't some of their decisions be shared publicly? 

 

 

A very interesting thought.  Their reasons could possibly be hurtful to the dancers themselves, though.  I believe that some years ago a certain dancer was barred from dancing the lead role in Onegin because she was deemed to be too fat.  I won't mention names, even though I am sure many people will know who I am talking about? I think she herself mentioned it at some point.  

 

Personally I would like a public explanation from the current and the previous AD as to why Laura Morera was never cast as Juliet.  I am sure they had their reasons; I would just like to know what they were.  

[taxi4ballet]

33 minutes ago, Candleque said:

One question I struggle with in my own balletomane journey is the air of secrecy around casting, part of the power imbalance between dancers (the talent) the Artistic Directors and choreographers (the deciders).

Why can't some of their decisions be shared publicly? 
 

Presumably because some of that information would be private and confidential between employee and employer, and either one or other party would not want it made public?

[Missfrankiecat]

3 minutes ago, taxi4ballet said:

Presumably because some of that information would be private and confidential between employee and employer, and either one or other party would not want it made public?

Exactly.  Ballet dancers have contracts of employment and the same law applies to them as to the rest of us.  Their employers owe the same duties of care.  Making public the reasons behind individual casting decisions would be a lawyer's dream source of litigation possibilities!

[San Perregrino]

I wonder if the RB gets a commission on any outside engagements danced by its employees? It would be a valuable source of income. Given that RB trains and cares for its employees year round perhaps this ought to be considered. 

[Jan McNulty]

19 minutes ago, San Perregrino said:

I wonder if the RB gets a commission on any outside engagements danced by its employees? It would be a valuable source of income. Given that RB trains and cares for its employees year round perhaps this ought to be considered. 

 

 

I have no inside knowledge whatsoever but I would expect that the top level dancers have contracts negotiated that include a specified minimum number of performances.  Beyond that, and as long as they meet their commitments, they would be able to go off and guest.

 

I think for gala type programmes they often have their own costumes.  I think this is probably standard across the ballet world.  I vaguely recall a Russian ballerina dancing Giselle with the Royal using her own costume which did not at all fit in with the earthy coloured tones of the production.

[Tony Newcombe]

4 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

 

 

I have no inside knowledge whatsoever but I would expect that the top level dancers have contracts negotiated that include a specified minimum number of performances.  Beyond that, and as long as they meet their commitments, they would be able to go off and guest.

 

I think for gala type programmes they often have their own costumes.  I think this is probably standard across the ballet world.  I vaguely recall a Russian ballerina dancing Giselle with the Royal using her own costume which did not at all fit in with the earthy coloured tones of the production.

The great Altynai Asylmuratova

Edited Sunday at 17:39 by Tony Newcombe
Autocorrect

[Jan McNulty]

Just now, Tony Newcombe said:

The great Altynai Asylmutarove

 

Thanks Tony.  I thought you'd know.

[Angela Essex]

On 28/06/2024 at 17:05, Don Q Fan said:

Chuffed for Joonhyuk Jun. 

Same here. Also for Annette Buvoli. 

[Emeralds]

I agree- I'm shocked, @Sabine0308. I've seen Osiel Gouneo dance Siegfried as a guest with English National Ballet and he is a wonderful dancer. Just shocking in this day and age. Carlos Acosta has been cast as Romeo and des Grieux many times now, and Jose Manuel Carreno as well (in New York as well as London) before Gouneo even left ballet school; he is younger than both of them and of the next generation.  I understand these two incidents occurred in Norway when he was already a principal dancer- not his current position at Bavarian State Ballet in Munich. 

 

Just to throw some perspective on this- the writer and poet Alexander Pushkin, the creator of the verse poem Eugene Onegin (without whom there would be no Onegin ballet nor Eugene Onegin opera) himself was of part African ancestry. His great grandfather was from Cameroon. 

[Sabine0308]

27 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

I agree- I'm shocked, @Sabine0308. I've seen Osiel Gouneo dance Siegfried as a guest with English National Ballet and he is a wonderful dancer. Just shocking in this day and age. Carlos Acosta has been cast as Romeo and des Grieux many times now, and Jose Manuel Carreno as well (in New York as well as London) before Gouneo even left ballet school; he is younger than both of them and of the next generation.  I understand these two incidents occurred in Norway when he was already a principal dancer- not his current position at Bavarian State Ballet in Munich. 

 

Just to throw some perspective on this- the writer and poet Alexander Pushkin, the creator of the verse poem Eugene Onegin (without whom there would be no Onegin ballet nor Eugene Onegin opera) himself was of part African ancestry. His great grandfather was from Cameroon. 

Yes, sorry I should have mentioned that this happened in Norway, very much to the dismay of the AD Ingrid Lorentzen.

I had no idea about Pushkin's African ancestry, well, you live you learn! Thanks.

[AnneMarriott]

10 hours ago, Jan McNulty said:

 

 

 

 

I think for gala type programmes they often have their own costumes.  I think this is probably standard across the ballet world.  I vaguely recall a Russian ballerina dancing Giselle with the Royal using her own costume which did not at all fit in with the earthy coloured tones of the production.

Ditto Sylvie Guillem - and I think I remember her doing so when she was actually a member of RB, not as a guest.

[MAB]

7 hours ago, Sabine0308 said:

The Cranko team didn't even ask him and partner to rehearse Onegin for them, they completely ignored his presence during rehearsal.

 

Regardless of colour I have heard stories of the Cranko team being very high handed over casting of Onegin.  When one internationally famous ballerina was denied the role of Tatiana, a friend who once worked with John Cranko told me that in many ways there was something almost 'humble'  about him and if a dancer of said ballerina's stature wanted to dance that role he would have been thrilled that she wanted to dance in one of his ballets.  

Edited Monday at 06:19 by MAB
typo

[Naomi M]

15 minutes ago, MAB said:

 

Regardless of colour I have heard stories of the Cranko team being very high handed over casting of Onegin.  When one internationally famous ballerina was denied the role of Tatiana, a friend who once worked with John Cranko told me that in many ways there was something almost 'humble'  about him and if a dancer of said ballerina's stature wanted to dance that role he would have been thrilled that she wanted to dance in one of his ballets.  

 

Recently, that happened at American Ballet Theatre in June, when Devon Teuscher and Daniel Camargo were pulled out of the lead roles in Onegin just a couple of days before their performance. They were not injured and appeared on other performances later. 

 

You can read this on Teuscher's instagram

https://www.instagram.com/p/C8U7_CAuIlb/?igsh=d2tzNW9hNGE5M296

[Sabine0308]

4 hours ago, bridiem said:

 

I haven't read his book, but since he has in fact danced both Onegin and Des Grieux surely that implies that neither the Cranko team nor Lady MacMillan had a problem with his skin colour?

Read the book. If you are being ignored from the team 3 times during rehearsal (they did not even look at him) and cannot show what you are capable of, what other reason would be? And the McMillan objection had been forwarded to him in particular. Yes he danced it later, but not the premiere. Despite being principal. The other 3 casts were not.

[LinMM]

Goodness does that mean when Onegin is performed next season there may be other reasons that dancers may not be cast other than ability in the role? 
Does this John Cranko organisation still have the power to veto RB dancers in his works 🤔

 

[Sabine0308]

1 hour ago, LinMM said:

Goodness does that mean when Onegin is performed next season there may be other reasons that dancers may not be cast other than ability in the role? 
Does this John Cranko organisation still have the power to veto RB dancers in his works 🤔

 

Simple answer: Yes.

[Sabine0308]

@bridiem sorry I forgot that the book is only available in German, so it is probably difficult to read for you.

[LinMM]

Well that is an anachronism in my view!!
Only the AD of a company should choose who dances the roles in the Companies ballets. 
Either the Royal Ballet has been given the rights to dance the ballet or it hasn’t! 
If the Company has earned this right by having dancers at a good enough standard and been deemed able to show the Ballet properly (costumes scenery etc etc) then that’s as far as their power should go in my view whether Cranko Macmillan or Ashton ballets. 

Sometimes “well meaning care”can go over into over controlling and stifling. 

Edited Monday at 10:46 by LinMM

[Shade]

I guess it depends on the agreement between the rights holder and the company Lin. Isn’t there control over casting for Balanchine and Macmilan?

[LinMM]

Yes as hinted in above post!! 
But I don’t think an agreement should go as far as them being able to veto individual dancers. Some trust has to be given to the AD ( and teaching/ coaching teams in a  Company) 

If they don’t trust any Company then fair enough but once having given the rights to perform a Ballet unless a top class Company should suddenly go down the drain then the AD’s should decide who dances in my view anyway! 

[Jan McNulty]

7 minutes ago, Shade said:

I guess it depends on the agreement between the rights holder and the company Lin. Isn’t there control over casting for Balanchine and Macmilan?

I also believe that is the case @Shade.

 

Wasn’t there an issue some years ago when the Balanchine Trust would not approve the casting for Apollo?  I believe it was withdrawn from the programme it was supposed to been on.

 

I would imagine it depends on the contract.

[Tony Newcombe]

I seem to remember The Balanchine Trust objecting to Mukhamedev in Apollo.

Antony Dowell as Director made the absolutely correct decision in pulling the ballet! 

[LinMM]

Well good for Dowell. 
If he thought Mukhamedev was good enough to dance Apollo that should have stood ….so taking a stance by pulling the ballet altogether was a refusal to be dictated to about who can dance a role!! 
How can some representative of the Balanchine trust know the dancers better than Dowell at the time. 
 

Did Mukhamedev ever dance Apollo with the Royal in the end? 

Edited Monday at 13:18 by LinMM

[Lizbie1]

It is interesting that these reports are generally about heirs or trusts rejecting proposed dancers, rather than choreographers. When it's the latter do things simply not get that far, or is it that they are less likely to be (depending on your viewpoint) fastidious/self-important? Or are there lots of cases that I've forgotten about?