Autumn 2024-25 Royal Ballet & Opera pricing

[Sim]

38 minutes ago, bridiem said:

 

Well I wouldn't (couldn't) pay £190 to see anyone, but I would definitely pay as much to see Pantuso as to see Hayward; I know Hayward will be wonderful, but I will be very keen to see an exciting new talent. I love seeing dancers tackle big new roles for the first time, and (if all goes well) progressing through the ranks. As @Richard LH has said, the actual ticket prices are a separate issue. But I don't consider the cost of my tickets based on the rank/s of the dancer/s performing - it doesn't enter my head. I'm not only there for the big star names - it's the company that matters.

Yes yes yes.  I consider even a first-year Artist in the RB to be a top class dancer if they have been given a place in one of the world’s top companies.  

[Mary]

But isn't the point not what informed and discerning balletomanes think, but what the paying public as a whole might think, at a time when RBO need more than ever to get people to pay full price for seats- and well-known names would surely be one obvious strategy to deploy?

 

Isn't the problem that, as well as receiving less funding,  the RBO has to pay back the  pandemic loan? I may be wrong about that.

But financially it is a very tight time and normally one would expect conservative, cautious decisions at such a time. So the casting, like the programming, seems a bit risky in light of the situation.

 

[San Perregrino]

I may not like the increasing ticket prices at the ROH but sadly there is no such thing as a free lunch.  Everything that we regulars appreciate, love, enjoy and hold dear at the ROH comes at a cost. 

For several years now, the UK and world economies have experienced an inflationary spiral. Whilst some incomes may have kept pace, for most costs have risen and, are rising faster, than incomes.  This is as true for the ROH as it is for the individual.   The result is that the cost of mounting a production today is greater than it was to mount the same production say 5 or even 3 years ago.

 

Whilst not the only one, a common business model (seemingly adopted by the ROH) for many events or performances in the wider world today seems to be that those wanting to secure a particular date or seat can do so by paying a higher price when sales open whilst those who have no such preferences or constraints can take a gamble that a lower price may be made available at a later date. Then again the latter group may lose out completely.

 

There isn't any evidence that the ROH is making an exorbitant profit by charging these ticket prices.  So, isn't it simply a case that in order to stage these world class productions with world class dancers in a world class venue at today's costs this is what initial ticket prices need to be set at to achieve whatever return has been decided is needed for the ROH to survive and, hopefully, to thrive?

 

edited to add that I don't particularly agree with this business model because it sets up an expectation that there will always be tickets available at a lower price and so discourages advance sales.  once a ticket is bought, the buyer is psychologically locked in and won't be distracted by external events from deciding not to attend at all.

Edited May 20 by San Perregrino

[bangorballetboy]

13 minutes ago, Mary said:

But isn't the point not what informed and discerning balletomanes think, but what the paying public as a whole might think, at a time when RBO need more than ever to get people to pay full price for seats- and well-known names would surely be one obvious strategy to deploy?

 

 

If I ask my colleagues to name a famous ballerina, the usual answers (bar the one or two quite cultured ones) would be Margot Fonteyn and Darcey Bussell.

[bridiem]

11 minutes ago, Mary said:

But isn't the point not what informed and discerning balletomanes think, but what the paying public as a whole might think, at a time when RBO need more than ever to get people to pay full price for seats- and well-known names would surely be one obvious strategy to deploy?

 

That's true; but I'm not sure how many names really are well-known to 'the paying public'. Most people in the big wide world haven't heard of even Nunez or Muntagirov or Osipova... 

[Sim]

9 hours ago, JaneHartley said:

They are literally ranked in a hierarchy which also involves differences in pay. If more was thought of their dancing abilities, they would be ranked more highly and they would therefore be paid more highly. That is literally how it works. 

 

It works that way because not every dancer can be a Principal.  Dancers are needed at all levels in a ballet company.  There are also budgetary constraints, as we all know.  Someone might be thought of very highly but if there is no room at the next level up they have to wait.  Also, a young dancer needs to get experience.  All of them start at the bottom and work their way up.  It's the ones with that extra something that keep on going up.  Just because they are at a lower rank and a first year Artist is paid less than a 10th year Principal does not mean at all that they are not valued.  You just can't have a company all on the same pay and at the same level, especially one such as the RB which is packed full of top level dancers. 

[Mary]

True indeed. I would have been delighted if any of my colleagues could name 2!

 

But there are people in between- quite a few come from abroad to see the RB principals.

[Paco]

20 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

 

While I agree with this general point, Swan Lake has sold out with higher prices & a much longer run than Winter's Tale, even though it was last done only 2 years ago compared to 6 years ago. Which might indicate it's partly due to the relative popularity of different works than just pricing and number of performances. Unfortunately that may encourage the RB to do even longer runs of the small number of the most popular ballets at even higher prices.

There are indeed shows which would sell out whatever the number of performances and ticket prices. This is true in most venues (London, Paris, Milano...). Swan Lake, Nutcracker, Giselle are amongst those shows (and for operas it is mostly Carmen). Sometimes at Paris Opera I get the feeling that they could program Swan Lake every day during the whole season, it would sell out every day...

Edited May 20 by Paco

[annamk]

1 minute ago, San Perregrino said:

There isn't any evidence that the ROH is making an exorbitant profit by charging these ticket prices.  So, isn't it simply a case that in order to stage these world class productions with world class dancers in a world class venue at today's costs this is what initial ticket prices need to be set at to achieve whatever return has been decided is needed for the ROH to survive and, hopefully, to thrive?

 

Isn't it the case that without donations and public subsidies the RoH would make a very large loss ?  I don't think it's possible to balance the books in this organisation without a radical change in the way it operates (no new ballets maybe ?) and even then it may be impossible. So in an era when public finances are in a dire position it's very tricky to increase subsidies for arts organisations in London, even if the forced ticket price increases appear "unethical" as @bridiem said above. 

[Sim]

8 minutes ago, San Perregrino said:

I may not like the increasing ticket prices at the ROH but sadly there is no such thing as a free lunch.  Everything that we regulars appreciate, love, enjoy and hold dear at the ROH comes at a cost. 

For several years now, the UK and world economies have experienced an inflationary spiral. Whilst some incomes may have kept pace, for most costs have risen and, are rising faster, than incomes.  This is as true for the ROH as it is for the individual.   The result is that the cost of mounting a production today is greater than it was to mount the same production say 5 or even 3 years ago.

 

Whilst not the only one, a common business model (seemingly adopted by the ROH) for many events or performances in the wider world today seems to be that those wanting to secure a particular date or seat can do so by paying a higher price when sales open whilst those who have no such preferences or constraints can take a gamble that a lower price may be made available at a later date. Then again the latter group may lose out completely.

 

There isn't any evidence that the ROH is making an exorbitant profit by charging these ticket prices.  So, isn't it simply a case that in order to stage these world class productions with world class dancers in a world class venue at today's costs this is what initial ticket prices need to be set at to achieve whatever return has been decided is needed for the ROH to survive and, hopefully, to thrive?

Yes, this makes sense.  Unfortunately, however, the same economic constraints are affecting many people, so the vicious circle is that they will not be able to pay the high prices that the ROH needs to charge.  I'm not an accountant nor an economist, so I don't know what the answer is.  

[San Perregrino]

does anyone know who benefits from the bar and catering takings? does they go into the coffers of the ROH or the pocket of a contracted catering company?

 

just thinking that if profits go to the ROH, so if patrons attracted to the ROH by buying a ticket at a 40% discount then buy a drink and/or snacks, then the incremental profit margin on the refreshments might negate or be greater than the upfront ticket discount.  

[oncnp]

Seat maps for Alice - Select your own seat (roh.org.uk)

 

MADMANN - Select your own seat (roh.org.uk)

 

and Cinderella - Select your own seat (roh.org.uk)

 

None so far for the Four Contemporary Ballets

 

Interesting....Rows A-F in the stalls are now in the second price tier. G-N are full price.  'Every little helps 

Edited May 20 by oncnp

[JNC]

Genuine question - do west end musicals (for example) or theatre (eg Old Vic, Donmar etc) receive public subsidies?

 

how do they keep their organisations going/financially viable?

 

For theatres I suppose they don’t have the costs of an orchestra and the number of actors will be smaller than the RB company. But musicals generally do have a live orchestra (it’s been a while since I’ve been to one). Before the pandemic RBO would be cheaper on average than seeing a musical but now I think prices are equivalent. 
 

Are the running costs for RBO significantly higher than other equivalent companies/venues? I know RBO is a bit different as they have to manage the building and the opera/ballet/orchestra with the staffing that goes with that along with costumes and sets, whereas musicals I suppose rent out the building so it’s more segregated. But then the difference is for those productions presumably someone is profiting somewhere, whereas at RBO there is no profit, and if there was it would just be put back into the organisation anyway.

 

I could be missing something obvious but would be interested to hear more if anyone is more knowledgable than me! 

[JNC]

5 minutes ago, oncnp said:

Seat maps for Alice - Select your own seat (roh.org.uk)

 

MADMANN - Select your own seat (roh.org.uk)

 

and Cinderella - Select your own seat (roh.org.uk)

Thanks for sharing this has gone live. Cinderella is now up as well and it looks identical to Alice (which we knew from the banding prices but sometimes they will change which rows are in which banding). 
 

On an initial glance, this actually is a pleasant (!) surprise for me. 
 

Comparing to 2023 Cinderella prices, the row split is the same and the price hasn’t increased for the £34 category, and £51 has “only” gone up £2 to £53.

 

So actually, in the circumstances of things, I’m reasonably happy with Cinderella. Quite relieved I’m not going to be paying the £50ish for the same seats I paid £30ish two years ago! 
 

Maddaddam whilst “cheaper” overall is a bit oddly split for me. It feels a big gap between £25 and £44, if I lived in London I’d be tempted to pay £30ish for a seat somewhere between the two price bands as I’m not sure I’d want to spend £44 on something I might dislike, but £25 gets you the very back of the amphi. 
 

No seat maps yet for the contemporary bill. 

[Dawnstar]

23 minutes ago, JNC said:

Genuine question - do west end musicals (for example) or theatre (eg Old Vic, Donmar etc) receive public subsidies?

 

As far as I know most West End musicals haven't received any public subsidies, with the exception of ones that have transferred to the WE after originating in publically subsidised theatres such as the National. Money to create a production is usually raised from private investors, who frequently lose their money unless a show turns out to be a hit.

 

11 minutes ago, JNC said:

Comparing to 2023 Cinderella prices, the row split is the same and the price hasn’t increased for the £34 category, and £51 has “only” gone up £2 to £53.

 

So actually, in the circumstances of things, I’m reasonably happy with Cinderella. Quite relieved I’m not going to be paying the £50ish for the same seats I paid £30ish two years ago!

 

My usual seats have gone up from £70 to £73 for Cinderella compared to 2023, which I suppose isn't too bad in terms of price rise, though I think they were overpriced in the first place so I can't really say I'm happy. I'm definitely not happy about Alice also being £73 when Winter's Tale mere months earlier is only £49.

[oncnp]

51 minutes ago, oncnp said:

Seat maps for Alice - Select your own seat (roh.org.uk)

 

MADMANN - Select your own seat (roh.org.uk)

 

and Cinderella - Select your own seat (roh.org.uk)

 

None so far for the Four Contemporary Ballets

 

Interesting....Rows A-F in the stalls are now in the second price tier. G-N are full price.  'Every little helps 

 

Sorry...missed Ballet Black - Select your own seat (roh.org.uk)

Edited May 20 by oncnp
with the correct link this time

[FionaM]

1 hour ago, oncnp said:

 

Interesting....Rows A-F in the stalls are now in the second price tier. G-N are full price.  'Every little helps 

something @capybara had been advocating for.  Sending my thanks to her 🙏

[tiltwithlips]

I'm very interested in all the lower slips being one (very cheap!) price for MADDADAM - this makes me much likelier to try it. I don't get the sense this is common on here, but my budget means I often end up in the middle tier of the lower slips (roughly seats 96 - 102, which is where it stops being worth it for me) if I can't get SCS - you miss some of the stage, but very rarely key parts, and this means that I almost never spend more than £14 on the ballet at the ROH (which compares astonishingly well to the West End, where I also try to keep costs low but my average ticket is more like £30-40).

[JNC]

31 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

My usual seats have gone up from £70 to £73 for Cinderella compared to 2023, which I suppose isn't too bad in terms of price rise, though I think they were overpriced in the first place

well indeed, the £53 seats I was referring to were about £30 a few years before…

 

But given realistically prices won’t ever go down (?!) I’m taking them staying practically the same as a win. 

[San Perregrino]

1 hour ago, oncnp said:

Interesting....Rows A-F in the stalls are now in the second price tier. G-N are full price.  'Every little helps 

 

thanks for this info.

the O/S seats designation in different price bands seems to have been overhauled with the sides stalls also being second tier (yay).

 

second tier pricing in central O/S rows A-F for Alice & Cinders.

 

Madadam has its own variation with central rows A-E being second tier. F being first tier.  also there is a fourth tier price for some seats. in addition, some are also greyed out perhaps an experiment to keep some O/S back for Friday Rush?

[Sim]

4 hours ago, FionaM said:

something @capybara had been advocating for.  Sending my thanks to her 🙏

I knew she would be joining the ballet angels and keeping a close eye on things!

[LinMM]

Thanks for those seat price maps oncnp!

Well the price for Row D in the Balcony is nearer what Row A was for this year so gone up nearly £20! No parries with front of Amphi any more. 
So the pricey ballets like Alice and Cinderella etc are now pricing me out as said I would not go over £140  for a seat….. not even for Cesar Corrales as Onegin (I wish)

 Row D is now £154!!! Row A is £168!! 
It looks like one performance only now in a seat when it’s top prices and any others will have to be standing. 

Edited May 20 by LinMM

[Dawnstar]

1 hour ago, LinMM said:

not even for Cesar Corrales as Onegin (I wish)

 

I'd like to see him to do Lensky first. Not that I'm expecting it to happen. (Sorry, going off topic.)

[LinMM]

Yes that would be good too …as long as a main role in the ballet! 

[jmhopton]

Well my restricted SC seats have gone up from £63 for Winters Tale to £73 for Cinderella. In 2019 they were £36 for Manon and for the summer Ashton this year they were surprisingly £39 which I thought a bargain (a long time since I've said that about RB tickets!) So I'm going to have to hope that my sciatica doesn't get really painful again as I think I'll mainly be standing in the autumn if I attend at all. I think those prices rule out any faint thoughts of seeing Alice as its about the same as my return train ticket and then £100+ for accommodation.  So I'll be hoping for some good casting for an occasional Cinderella matinee, with the rest of my ballet budget going on both showings of Onegin. 

[aliceinwoolfland]

I'd been hoping to treat my mum and I to really good seats for 'Alice', but looking at that seat map, it's doubtful! Over £150 for orchestra stalls/grand tier/central balcony 😭

[LinMM]

I know it’s very disappointing. 
Ever since Covid I’ve been reluctantly extending my absolute upper limit …definitely not above £80….then  not above £100 then more recently definitely not above £120!! But with even the very back of the Balcony now £154 for many performances it does make it difficult so can alas only come to fewer and fewer performances. 

[Lizbie1]

On 20/05/2024 at 04:47, annamk said:

 

Isn't it the case that without donations and public subsidies the RoH would make a very large loss ?  I don't think it's possible to balance the books in this organisation without a radical change in the way it operates (no new ballets maybe ?) and even then it may be impossible. So in an era when public finances are in a dire position it's very tricky to increase subsidies for arts organisations in London, even if the forced ticket price increases appear "unethical" as @bridiem said above. 

 

Sorry, late to this.

 

A recent Times article stated that public subsidy accounts for 16% of RBO's turnover, which is lower than many might assume. The interesting question is how much of that 16% could be offset by stopping activity targeted at securing it in the first place.

 

For the record, Alex Beard rejected the suggestion that they might follow the Wigmore Hall's planned casting off of ACE shackles, both on philosophical grounds and because "John [Gilhooly] doesn't have 1000 employees and 2000 freelancers contracted each year to worry about."

 

I don't know how much money donations bring in.

[bridiem]

28 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

Sorry, late to this.

 

A recent Times article stated that public subsidy accounts for 16% of RBO's turnover, which is lower than many might assume. The interesting question is how much of that 16% could be offset by stopping activity targeted at securing it in the first place.

 

For the record, Alex Beard rejected the suggestion that they might follow the Wigmore Hall's planned casting off of ACE shackles, both on philosophical grounds and because "John [Gilhooly] doesn't have 1000 employees and 2000 freelancers contracted each year to worry about."

 

I don't know how much money donations bring in.

 

In the 2021-2022 Accounts (the latest available on the Charity Commission website), ACE and other grants were 19% of income, Box Office 30%, Fundraising and sponsorship 32%, Commercial and other income 18%, and Investment income 1%. Total income was £132.7 million and total expenditure £136.9 million.

[art_enthusiast]

I've just got a question about West End ticket prices, not sure where to post it - does anyone know anything about 'day' tickets/getting tickets on the day being cheaper than getting them in advance.

 

I was hoping to see Wicked for the first time (in advance of the movie coming out) and was wondering if there was any kind of hack to get cheaper tickets.

[Emeralds]

24 minutes ago, art_enthusiast said:

I've just got a question about West End ticket prices, not sure where to post it - does anyone know anything about 'day' tickets/getting tickets on the day being cheaper than getting them in advance.

 

I was hoping to see Wicked for the first time (in advance of the movie coming out) and was wondering if there was any kind of hack to get cheaper tickets.

For West End shows, the TKTS London website or booth. Not all shows will do discounts (eg the very sought after or sold out shows won't), but many long running shows like Wicked will often have discounts for weekday performances. 

[bangorballetboy]

TKTS is no use for Wicked, I can’t remember the last time I saw discounted tickets for the show there.

 

Front row tickets go on sale on Wednesday at 10am for the shows the following week. Tickets are £29.50 and the central seats are excellent. Seats towards the ends of the row have quite a restricted view due to the staging.

 

Day tickets are also available at 10am on the day through TodayTix, again £29.50. I’ve had  some very good tickets for Wicked through this.

 

More details here

[Jamesrhblack]

I have found both TodayTix and Stage Audience useful for sourcing reduced tickets for the theatre. The latter involves a membership fee but you can more than save that on your first purchase.