Autumn 2024-25 Royal Ballet & Opera pricing

[JaneHartley]

Discount code LEONTES40 if of interest

[art_enthusiast]

13 minutes ago, JaneHartley said:

I am willing to wager that Alice is going to be really difficult for RB to shift at £190, particularly since of the 10 performers announced in principal roles 4 of them are not principals and it doesn't include any of the most popular principals - Nunez, Osipova or Vadim (and not even Cuthbertson who created the role) whose ticket sells out quickest for all the ballets. 

 

Well, we don't know who will be playing the Queen of Hearts yet - most likely it will be one of the principals. Maybe Cuthbertson will do that role

[Dawnstar]

Argh, of course a Winter's Tale discount code would emerge only hours after I book Friday rush tickets for the other 2 casts! I'm not sure I can be bothered to do another lot of ticket swapping, having already done one lot with a change of date for one cast & auditorium side for the other. All those £4 exchange fees do add up.

Edited May 17 by Dawnstar
Typo

[FionaM]

@Dawnstar urgh.  Me too. 

[Missfrankiecat]

Thanks to those high-lighting the offer - I've up-graded for Friday.   If they had done this a bit earlier I would have taken in another cast as I looked at that earlier in the run but felt the seats were too over-priced for me for this production and it's too late now with other commitments.

[art_enthusiast]

4 minutes ago, Missfrankiecat said:

 it's too late now with other commitments.

 

Yep - I now don't have the free time to make the other cast I wanted to see (Lamb's). However, if they'd introduced the offer earlier I might have done.

[JNC]

Hopefully not too far off topic but I wonder if anyone else received a survey from ROH about sustainability?

 

the reason why it may be relevant to pricing is, reading between the lines, they were trying to get data on whether putting money into solar panels (for example) or having works that focus on climate change would make people more/less likely to attend ROH and or give donations to support this.

 

While I’m very much in favour of sustainability (no plastic cups, cutlery, free water refills encouraged over bottled water etc) I certainly wouldn’t pay more for tickets to fund or support these types of things (given what ROH’s ticket prices are like now!) and made that clear. 
 

Also while I think education about climate change and sustainability is a must, I don’t necessarily want or need it from ROH, and I certainly don’t want to be preached at. I wouldn’t be opposed to seeing a climate change based ballet for example but only if the choreography/plot was actually good!
 

Ultimately I choose to go to ROH it’s because I want to see a particular ballet and the idea the survey thought people would be swayed more or less to attend based on anything other than the programming baffled me slightly! 
 

I add I was also quite annoyed because completing the survey entitled me to a draw for £100 ticket credit…of course on the final page it was blank so I couldn’t enter my details (technical fault…?) and so that was that!

Edited May 18 by JNC

[aliceinwoolfland]

40% off the top price seats for The Winter's Tale is huge. I wonder if the strategy of massively overpricing seats and then offering them much more cheaply last minute is just going to lead to fewer people booking early on.  

[Paco]

2 minutes ago, aliceinwoolfland said:

40% off the top price seats for The Winter's Tale is huge. I wonder if the strategy of massively overpricing seats and then offering them much more cheaply last minute is just going to lead to fewer people booking early on.  

That's exactly what happened at Paris Opera, mostly for opera performances. Subscriptions have fallen and many people just wait for last minute discounts.

[FionaM]

That’s what I did for Cinderella last time around.  Booked nothing and then got massive discount.

[alison]

43 minutes ago, aliceinwoolfland said:

40% off the top price seats for The Winter's Tale is huge.

 

It seems to be about par for the course at the ROH - I think other programmes have had similar offers.  Even with the 40% discount, it would still be a stretch for me to afford most of the seats, even in normal times.

[LinMM]

However if the discount offers are as easy to operate as the Leontes40 one was one could still book earlier in case offers don’t come at a later stage but if they do just upgrade or even go for an extra performance ….even though a bit of a Pfaff I suppose. 
I think I only did this one just to see if I could! But as a general way of operating probably wouldn’t like that much. Though it’s easier to delay booking anyway when there are a lot of unsold seats in an area you usually sit in. Unfortunately my favoured seats are nearly always gone fairly quickly even when there are still a lot of other seats available. 

[The Sitter In]

Well, if you put together a dull-as-ditch-water season with interminable runs of the same works AND hike the prices, the result will be acres of empty seats. Not rocket science to anyone except to the good old RB and ROH in general who, of course, know best.

[Fairy]

On 17/05/2024 at 18:50, JaneHartley said:

So I thought I'd make my first post here, after being a lurker. The prices shocked me when I saw them for the new season, even more so due to their inability to shift tickets at their current price. 

 

The Winter's Tale is now being discounted at 40% (although notably not for Nunez or Cuthbertson's performances) from £140. I am willing to wager that Alice is going to be really difficult for RB to shift at £190, particularly since of the 10 performers announced in principal roles 4 of them are not principals and it doesn't include any of the most popular principals - Nunez, Osipova or Vadim (and not even Cuthbertson who created the role) whose ticket sells out quickest for all the ballets. 

 

Have casting come out for Alice? I must have missed that

[bridiem]

22 minutes ago, Fairy said:

 

Have casting come out for Alice? I must have missed that

 

Yes - there's a new thread called 'RB Autumn 2024 casting'.

Edited May 19 by bridiem

[Dawnstar]

1 hour ago, The Sitter In said:

Well, if you put together a dull-as-ditch-water season with interminable runs of the same works AND hike the prices, the result will be acres of empty seats. Not rocket science to anyone except to the good old RB and ROH in general who, of course, know best.

 

While I agree with this general point, Swan Lake has sold out with higher prices & a much longer run than Winter's Tale, even though it was last done only 2 years ago compared to 6 years ago. Which might indicate it's partly due to the relative popularity of different works than just pricing and number of performances. Unfortunately that may encourage the RB to do even longer runs of the small number of the most popular ballets at even higher prices.

[alison]

Except that the 'cheaper' seats that I was thinking of for swan lake were about two-thirds of the price of the ones for winter's tale - and therein I think lies much of the problem. I still can't come up with any credible reason for this unless it's an acknowledgement that seats are going to be difficult to sell and they're trying to offset the expected losses.

[JaneHartley]

2 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

 

While I agree with this general point, Swan Lake has sold out with higher prices & a much longer run than Winter's Tale, even though it was last done only 2 years ago compared to 6 years ago. Which might indicate it's partly due to the relative popularity of different works than just pricing and number of performances. Unfortunately that may encourage the RB to do even longer runs of the small number of the most popular ballets at even higher prices.

I don't think you can compared Swan Lake and The Nutcracker with any other ballet in terms of pricing or sales. They are global cultural icons that resonate 'ballet' to the wider world in a way that others do not and pull in people who otherwise never go to the ballet (or do so every 10/20/30 years).
 

[bridiem]

4 minutes ago, JaneHartley said:

I don't think you can compared Swan Lake and The Nutcracker with any other ballet in terms of pricing or sales. They are global cultural icons that resonate 'ballet' to the wider world in a way that others do not and pull in people who otherwise never go to the ballet (or do so every 10/20/30 years).

 

Yes; what's bizarre is that the ROH is now pricing other less popular/well-known works as if they think they're 'must-see' ballets that lots of people will pay very high prices to see, more so even than to see SL or Nutcracker. If there's 'data' for that approach I'd be interested in seeing it. (Or perhaps they think that by pricing a work very high, people will assume that it's going to be brilliant?!).

[OnePigeon]

I also think it’s bizarre to keep casing junior ranked dancers in what are generally principal roles and then charge £190 for tickets.  I personally would not be happy to take a chance in this way if I was spending that kind of money.  I think there’s an argument for charging less for certain performances to allow lower ranked dancers get some experience without the huge burden of expectation on them.

[Scheherezade]

1 hour ago, OnePigeon said:

I think there’s an argument for charging less for certain performances to allow lower ranked dancers get some experience without the huge burden of expectation on them.

Yes, and since they are so fond of justifying the current price bands on the basis that they are in line with West End prices rather than subsidised theatre such as The National, they might care to bear in mind that the eye watering prices charged for said West End productions is due to the casting of ‘must see’ film or TV stars who will draw in the punters irrespective of the quality or otherwise of their performance or because the production is a guaranteed sell out such as Wicked or The Lion King. 

[art_enthusiast]

3 hours ago, bridiem said:

(Or perhaps they think that by pricing a work very high, people will assume that it's going to be brilliant?!).

I suppose there’s some logic there - for example, people spending ridiculous amounts on designer fashion brands because they think that cost equals quality. Not really dependable in a cost of living crisis though…

[annamk]

But aren't the pricing increases at the RoH connected to reductions in funding from the Arts Council ? Or am I wrong and that isn't happening ? 

[Richard LH]

2 hours ago, OnePigeon said:

 I think there’s an argument for charging less for certain performances to allow lower ranked dancers get some experience without the huge burden of expectation on them.

I think that would be a divisive approach, and insulting to the chosen dancers to suggest some are valued more cheaply. It would also send a message to the public that you may well be seeing a second rate performance if you choose a cheaper cast.

The aim, rather, should be to concentrate on  training for roles and  choosing  leading dancers  whose artistry and strength will enable them to bring a performance of the expected standard. By and large the RB manage this very well.

[bridiem]

59 minutes ago, annamk said:

But aren't the pricing increases at the RoH connected to reductions in funding from the Arts Council ? Or am I wrong and that isn't happening ? 

 

I don't think that an appropriate response to reduced funding is to increase ticket prices to a level that is in my view unethical (given that the ROH does still receive a very large Arts Council grant). I used to be able to defend the ROH against accusations of elitism; now, I can't.

[Blossom]

31 minutes ago, bridiem said:

 

I don't think that an appropriate response to reduced funding is to increase ticket prices to a level that is in my view unethical (given that the ROH does still receive a very large Arts Council grant). I used to be able to defend the ROH against accusations of elitism; now, I can't.

They have said (as posted earlier on ticket pricing) that the proposed prices include subsidies from their donors. I think that it's likely that without these prices, their deficit will grow, but until they can find new sources of income (clearly ACE cannot be relied on and I expect the current ACE review to be self marking of homework), their options are only to increase prices and possibly increase their deficit if they need to offer discounts, or increase their deficit from the start, which I can't imagine is considered a sound way to do business. 

[Emeralds]

In the past (before 2000) they used to do exactly what @OnePigeon has suggested - matinees (Saturdays and weekdays; they virtually never had Sunday shows then apart from some charity galas) were charged significantly less than evening performances- around 15-30% cheaper depending on the production and the company- and often there would be multiple debuts in various roles, usually one or both leads, but also solo roles such as Bluebird/ Myrtha/ Gamzatti/ Prologue Fairies/ Stepsisters/ Puck etc.....it would be cast as a "junior" or "debutants' " performance although the corps de ballet in ensemble dances would be the same.

 

They don't do that at ROH any more- debuts are scattered throughout, prices are identical for different performances of the same production regardless of the cast. Eg the price for Nunez + Muntagirov is the same as the price for one artist or two first artists making their debut/s in lead role/s. Of course being ranked junior doesn't necessarily equal a less stellar performance than a principal- eg Nunez and Cojocaru were always very good even in their first year in the company, as was Muntagirov as a First Artist at ENB (they have all since developed vastly from "very good" of course, but always started from a high bar).

 

ENB & BRB at some theatres offer lower prices for weekdays performances and higher for weekends (driven more by theatre policy and historical demand)- they charge the same at Sadler's Wells whether weekday evening, weekend evening, or matinee. I don't know if Northern Ballet and Scottish Ballet have two tiered or more tiered systems at some of the theatres they visit but certainly when they dance at Sadler's Wells and a few theatres I've perused, prices are the same for all the performances of a production. 

 

Hmm...what do I think is better? I think the "cheaper price + lots of debuts" system, aside from the obvious advantage of the cheaper price, had its drawbacks in that sometimes it felt like the "lesser" show, that there were more nerves and wobbles with a lot of dancers being new to the roles  and maybe a lower level of excitement or  expectation ... so I often avoided them despite the saving in price. But the audiences seemed appreciative and supportive, and on the occasions I went, some outstanding and memorable dancing from some dancers  eg Jonathan Cope as Siegfried, Ravenna Tucker as Autumn Fairy, Karen Paisey as  Cinderella etc. 

 

Also, I suppose sometimes senior principals and stars might prefer to dance the Saturday or weekday matinee (your work day finishes earlier!)....and that offers more choice to audiences who travel from far away to support the company.

 

My personal choice would not be to go back to a two-tier or three-tier price system but I think there has to be more logic in the jump in prices, ie a bench seat for over £80 is crazy. (Have they tried sitting on that bench??) I would put debuts by more junior company members on "friendly" slots eg matinées first then one weekend (Fri or Sat) evening at the end.  That is more for the dancers' benefit rather than any perceived indication of quality - after all, sometimes principals can be not great (or have an off night/bad day at the office) in roles while artists and first artists can be incredible. 

Edited May 19 by Emeralds

[JNC]

11 hours ago, alison said:

 

It seems to be about par for the course at the ROH - I think other programmes have had similar offers.  Even with the 40% discount, it would still be a stretch for me to afford most of the seats, even in normal times.

exactly this, if I can barely afford amphi seats I can hardly afford the stalls even with 40% off. 
 

it’s a bad strategy to discount it feels for all reasons already mentioned (annoying loyal customers booking early, feeling less exclusive/desirable etc) but it feels doubly unfair/silly to discount to those who can afford it more? I don’t begrudge any regulars or people out for a good deal but when you’re someone booking on booking day at 9am to secure a mid-amphi seat that has more than doubled in price in 8 years I’ll admit it smarts.

 

Re the different tier pricing - I agree it would send the wrong message, but equally I admit I’m surprised to see so many performances given to artists; I would have maybe expected them to have 1-2 performances each rather than 3-4. I think it’s very true to see not every principal should dance everything as they’re are different suitabilities (although some of this may be subjective though) but given there are so many principals with talent right now and the number of programmes is limited they do need to be cast in most principal roles otherwise we won’t see them for a whole quarter or 6 months! 
 

Personally as someone who now prioritises matinees being non-London based I wouldn’t want to see only more junior dancers regularly either (not opposed to them occasionally but given they’ll be around for quite a few years I want to see Nunez, Osipova while they’re still dancing as who knows when certain repertoire works will come back…). 
 

Anyway I will watch with interest how Alice sells. Maybe if it sells as “badly” as Winter’s Tale they will rethink other pricing? Probably not though. I’d be interested to know whether they actually crunch the numbers on what £ they’d need to make each band at to sell out at a point where it costs them the same in ticket sales to the number of tickets they have to discount / remain unsold (if that makes sense at all!). E.g. if all tickets were 5% cheaper then they wouldn’t need to do this offer and they’d sell out with the same ticket income…? 
 

I sense Romeo and Juliet will be charging top price next year. My only hope is for Onegin and Balanchine to be more reasonable, and similar to Ashton triple pricing this year. (Hopefully they won’t make Onegin same price as Cinderella for example knowing that ballet fans will go and see it…?) 

[art_enthusiast]

4 hours ago, Richard LH said:

I think that would be a divisive approach, and insulting to the chosen dancers to suggest some are valued more cheaply. It would also send a message to the public that you may well be seeing a second rate performance if you choose a cheaper cast.

The aim, rather, should be to concentrate on  training for roles and  choosing  leading dancers  whose artistry and strength will enable them to bring a performance of the expected standard. By and large the RB manage this very well.

 

Yep. A way of managing it is to have less experienced dancers paired with more experienced - which is what they seem to be doing for Alice/the Winter's Tale. I'm sure no performance could be considered second rate, given that anyone dancing any role must have proved themselves more than capable of the part beforehand.

[JaneHartley]

4 hours ago, Richard LH said:

I think that would be a divisive approach, and insulting to the chosen dancers to suggest some are valued more cheaply. It would also send a message to the public that you may well be seeing a second rate performance if you choose a cheaper cast.

The aim, rather, should be to concentrate on  training for roles and  choosing  leading dancers  whose artistry and strength will enable them to bring a performance of the expected standard. By and large the RB manage this very well.

So I was going to make the point that there should be lower prices for some casts but figured this might be divisive. I am afraid I can't disagree with this comment more, simply because its factually wrong; some chosen dancers are valued more cheaply. They are literally ranked in a hierarchy which also involves differences in pay. If more was thought of their dancing abilities, they would be ranked more highly and they would therefore be paid more highly. That is literally how it works. 

 

Personally, I think you'd be utterly mad to pay £190 to see a first artist, when you can pay to see Hayward in the same role. Just bonkers to me! 

 

 

[Richard LH]

7 hours ago, JaneHartley said:

So I was going to make the point that there should be lower prices for some casts but figured this might be divisive. I am afraid I can't disagree with this comment more, simply because its factually wrong; some chosen dancers are valued more cheaply. They are literally ranked in a hierarchy which also involves differences in pay. If more was thought of their dancing abilities, they would be ranked more highly and they would therefore be paid more highly. That is literally how it works. 

 

Personally, I think you'd be utterly mad to pay £190 to see a first artist, when you can pay to see Hayward in the same role. Just bonkers to me! 

 

 

I  think a dancer’s current pay scale and ranking is determined by many factors including age and experience.  Principal dancers are familiar with, and are considered suitable for, many different roles; here we have been discussing a couple of  younger dancers who don’t have the same overall rep. experience  but are exciting young talents and have been deemed by the RB the best available for one particular leading role. For that role, at least , we can assume they are effectively valued pretty much the same as higher ranked dancers (of course at this stage we don’t know what their ranking will be by the time they perform).

 

Also the ticket price relates to  the whole performance and surely shouldn’t be determined  by what pay scale one of the leading players happens to be on at the time.

 

I may be “bonkers”, but I have seen enough of Pantuso already, for example, to have decided to book her performance as Perdita in The Winter’s Tale rather than that of Hayward. Not that Hayward isn’t  great in the role, but I have seen her dance it before and  I am excited to see what Pantuso makes of it. I think a numbers of  other posters are likely to come to a similar conclusion about the Alice casts. The high overall  pricing for Alice, including the top price of £190, is a different issue.  

[bridiem]

8 hours ago, JaneHartley said:

So I was going to make the point that there should be lower prices for some casts but figured this might be divisive. I am afraid I can't disagree with this comment more, simply because its factually wrong; some chosen dancers are valued more cheaply. They are literally ranked in a hierarchy which also involves differences in pay. If more was thought of their dancing abilities, they would be ranked more highly and they would therefore be paid more highly. That is literally how it works. 

 

Personally, I think you'd be utterly mad to pay £190 to see a first artist, when you can pay to see Hayward in the same role. Just bonkers to me! 

 

Well I wouldn't (couldn't) pay £190 to see anyone, but I would definitely pay as much to see Pantuso as to see Hayward; I know Hayward will be wonderful, but I will be very keen to see an exciting new talent. I love seeing dancers tackle big new roles for the first time, and (if all goes well) progressing through the ranks. As @Richard LH has said, the actual ticket prices are a separate issue. But I don't consider the cost of my tickets based on the rank/s of the dancer/s performing - it doesn't enter my head. I'm not only there for the big star names - it's the company that matters.

[Jan McNulty]

Over years of ballet going, I don't know if you have ever listened in to random conversations but on a number of occasions I have heard people comparing the cast list to the programme and expressing disappointment that they are not seeing principal dancers in the leading roles.

 

On several occasions I have had to point out that the dancers they are seeing are up and coming and that in years to come they will be able to say "I saw dancer x as a whippersnapper".  On most of those occasions the people have confirmed at the end that they had been bowled over.

 

Over the years I have sought out dancers at midweek matinees to see their debuts and was never disappointed.

 

Not necessarily at the Royal Ballet.