Jake Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 (edited) During the ‘off season’ I wondered whether it might be worth having a discussion of which dancers readers feel gave as near as possible a definitive interpretation of specific roles. There was an interesting thread of this type a few months ago regarding the various Rudolfs in Mayerling. What about other roles? A few suggestions to start with, based mainly on performances at Covent Garden: Kitri/Basilio - Osipova and Vasiliev (who could possibly beat that?). Espada - Hirano. Des Grieux - Muntagirov. Lise - many possibilities including Osipova, Nunez etc but Yoshida sticks in my mind. Juliet - Cojocaru, and Hayward close up. Tybalt - Ball. Giselle - Osipova. Acosta or Muntagirov as Albrecht. Odile (and any other role she was in, especially Myrthe) - Yanowsky. Onegin - Kobborg (with Cojocaru as Tatiana) or Cooper (and Vogel, judging by a stream I saw). Drosselmeyer - Avis. Muntagirov/Nunez as Prince and SPF. Would enjoy hearing other views, both regarding contemporary dancers and those from preceding generations. Edited September 4, 2023 by alison To change font size 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 Is this who you think currently dancing are definitive in a role or can it be past dancers you’ve seen too? Or a combi of both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted September 4, 2023 Author Share Posted September 4, 2023 Either or a combination. Especially interesting if videos exist of the older performances. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaM Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 Definitive memorable performances …. Aurora, Cinderella and Giselle - Alina Cojocaru Albrecht, Armand, Crown Prince Rudolf - Sergei Polunin Romeo (MacMillan) - Wayne Eagling Odette/Odile - Ulyana Lopatkina, Polina Semionova, Susan Jaffe, Fumi Kaneko Sylvia - Lauren Cuthbertson, Darcey Bussell Manon duo - Francesca Hayward and Alexander Campbell Male Swan - Adam Cooper Spartacus - Irek Mukhamedov, Vladimir Vasiliev Des Grieux - Friedemann Vogel Hmm this is interesting … because the most affecting White Swan pdd I’ve seen ever was Anna Tsygankova and Girorgi Potskhishvili. Not sure I’d vote for the whole performance being the best overall because the production drags on., and his technique isn’t pure enough for Siegfried, though it is virtuoso. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 Wow, interesting topic. I will have to think about that one. But off the top of my head (not necessarily definitive but the best I have seen that pop up immediately. I will no doubt think of others): Women: Lise: Belinda Hatley/Roberta Marquez Giselle: Alina Cojocaru/Natalia Osipova/Carla Fracci Odette/Odile: Natalia Makarova/Fumi Kaneko/Ulyana Lopatkina Aurora: Yasmine Naghdi/Agnes Oakes/Fumi Kaneko Tatiana: Alina Cojocaru/Laura Morera Juliet: Alessandra Ferri/Leslie Collier/Mara Galeazzi/Yasmine Naghdi/Lauren Cuthbertson Manon: Sylvie Guillem/Laura Morera/Alina Cojocaru Mary Vetsera: Lynn Seymour/Mara Galeazzi/Leanne Benjamin Kitri: Natalia Osipova/Marianela Nunez Nikiya: Olga Smirnova Men: Des Grieux: Vladimir Shklyarov/Federico Bonelli/Vadim Muntagirov Rudolf: David Wall/Irek Mukhamedov/Johan Kobborg/Vadim Muntagirov/Thiago Soares Onegin: Friedemann Vogel/Federico Bonelli/Johan Kobborg/Jason Reilly Romeo: Matthew Ball/David Wall/William Bracewell/Mikhail Baryshnikov Basilio: Mikhail Baryshnikov/Ivan Vasiliev Siegfried: Brandon Lawrence, Vadim Muntagirov, Baryshnikov Albrecht: Johan Kobborg/Matthew Ball/Federico Bonelli and a special mention of Tybalt....not a leading role, but Matthew Ball made it into one with his original and deeply-felt interpretation. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxDaveM Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 Women: Any role - Yasmine Naghdi Men: pfff - Yas would knock any of them into shape 😉 And now will go off and give it more thought! lol 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Wall Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 (edited) I'm not sure about 'definitive' for - as I get older which it seems I'm rapidly doing the older that I get - I begin to doubt my own memory which I used so to depend upon. That said the other night I stumbled across a video of Suzanne Farrell and Peter Martins in Allegro Brilliante and I realised that was the first cast I saw in the ballet. Like SO many with Suzanne she marked them for me forever - even in face of the truly blissful mastery of Tiler Peck whose musical zeal blazes in it. Even when I watch the roles I saw Suzanne in - oh, so many - certainly second movement in Symphony in C with the changes Balanchine put in for her, the last movement in Vienna Waltzes, Chaconne and - 12 oh so memorable times in Diamonds - I see her shadow even now. It was her back. It STILL leaves traces - much as Wendy Whelan did in so much - certainly Robbins' The Cage - and especially those many pieces that were created for her - a vast amount - including Forsythe's Hermann Sherman and much Ratmansky (for whom he said she was understandably 'a muse'), which include such world masterworks as Concerto DSCH, Pictures at an Exhibition, Namouna, and Russian Seasons. These women haunt. It's strange as when I very first saw them I wasn't sure that I liked them at all. (I remember Wendy joining NYCB fresh from SAB - where I'd certainly seen her in the showcase - and she wore bright, BRIGHT red lipstick and you could watch her mouth the counts. Indeed, we used to say: 'Count along with Wendy'.) Rapidly I became devoted - and still am. That is, I suppose, testament to their definitive talents for which I am EVER so grateful. Another performance I will always remember was at a (half empty) Wednesday matinee - DECADES AGO - of La Sylphide (Erik Bruhn's production) in Canada. I was taking my PhD and had bunked off to see the ballerina, Nadia Potts as I rather liked her. I forgot who was originally cast as James - but he was replaced at the last minute. There was an announcement on the vast theatre's tanoy. They had brought a graduating student in from SAB as the replacement. They said the name but I certainly didn't note it at the time. The curtain went up and - MY WORD - once seen, NEVER forgotten. Certainly I have NEVER seen the role BETTER performed. I was dashing around afterwards asking patrons and staff who he was. No one seemed to know. I went around to the stage door and the Doorman told me the name: Fernando Bujones. ENOUGH SAID. Edited September 4, 2023 by Bruce Wall 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 When I started compiling my list, I realised that for me it’s pretty much impossible to say that any one interpretation of a major role has been ‘definitive’ because, no matter how brilliant it was, that would exclude too many other interpretations of equal but different brilliance. In fact, the only role for which I could do this is a character role where I do really believe that there has been/is one definitive interpretation… But I think this is because a great role does generally permit different great interpretations rather than one definitive one. Also, I find to my surprise that there are dancers I love/have loved who don’t appear on the list. I think that’s either because they are/were excellent in many roles but not necessarily ‘definitive’ in one, and/or because I haven’t yet seen them often enough in the role/s. (I do think that it normally takes a number of performances for me to consider an interpretation ‘definitive’, though there are a few exceptions to this below. This is also why the list is very RB-heavy, because I have seen more performances by the RB than by any other company.) And there are other roles I could have included, but this post would then be even longer… Odette/Odile: Collier, Makarova, Brind, Cojocaru, Rojo, Yanowsky, Kaneko Siegfried: Dowell, Muntagirov Aurora: Collier, Cojocaru, Lamb, Nunez Florimund: Dowell, Muntagirov Giselle: Evdokimova, Makarova, Cojocaru, Rojo, Lamb, Osipova, Hirata Albrecht: Nureyev, Dowell, Kobborg, Polunin, Morales Myrthe: Yanowsky, Heap, Quagebeur (Khan version) Hilarion: Jefferies, Gartside Cinderella: Collier, Cojocaru, Hayward Prince: Dowell, Muntagirov Romeo: Dowell, Kobborg, Muntagirov Juliet: Collier, Ferri, Cojocaru, Rojo, Lamb Manon: Wildor, Cojocaru, Rojo, Lamb Des Grieux: Dowell, Kobborg, Muntagirov Rudolf: Wall, Kobborg, Watson, Muntagirov Mary Vetsera: Seymour, Ferri, Benjamin, Rojo Lise: Collier, Hayward Firebird: Chadwick, Benjamin And yes – Drosselmeyer: Avis 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Perregrino Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 Every performance is a definitive performance because every performance, even if it is the same role danced by the same dancer on a different night is unique. Like snowflakes, no two are the same. And thus to paraphrase Bruce “they’re all my favourites”. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesrhblack Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 I’m not sure any interpretation can ever be considered definitive, and my experience is very RB based. Nevertheless, over their repertoire here are the ones that really stick in my mind :- Swan Lake Odette / Odile - Fumi Kaneko / Monica Mason (can’t choose) Prince Siegfried - Federico Bonelli / David Wall (can’t choose) The Sleeping Beauty Princess Aurora - Lesley Collier Prince Florimund - Alexander Campbell Giselle Giselle - Laura Morera / Natalia Osipova / Merle Park (can’t choose) Albrecht - Federico Bonelli / David Wall (can’t choose) Myrtha - Monica Mason I don’t go to The Nutcracker so no placings there Manon Manon - Antoinette Sibley / Zenaida Yanowsky (in order) Des Grieux - Alexander Campbell / Anthony Dowell (in alphabetical order) Lescaut - David Wall Lescaut’s Mistress - Monica Mason Mayerling Prince Rudolf - Irek Mukhamedov / David Wall (can’t choose) Mary Vetsera - Mara Galeazzi / Laura Morera (can’t choose) Marie Larisch - Sarah Lamb / Merle Park (can’t choose) Romeo and Juliet (MacMillan) Juliet - Marguerite Porter Romeo - William Bracewell / Alexander Campbell (can’t choose) Mercutio - Alexander Campbell / Stephen Jefferies (can’t choose) Romeo and Juliet (Nureyev) Juliet - Patricia Ruanne Cinderella Cinderella - Antoinette Sibley The Prince - David Wall La fille mal gardée Lise - Lesley Collier / Ann Jenner / Roberta Marquez (can’t choose) Colas - Mikhail Baryshnikov /Alexander Campbell / Irek Mukhamedov / David Wall (can’t choose) A Month in the Country Natalia - Laura Morera / Antoinette Sibley (can’t choose) Beliaev - Mikhail Baryshnikov / Anthony Dowell (can’t choose) Four Schumann Pieces Anthony Dowell Onegin Tatyana - Mara Galeazzi Onegin - Thiago Soares Raymonda - Act 3 Raymonda - Antoinette Sibley Jean de Brienne - Vladimir Muntagirov I have been so lucky to see truly wonderful dancers over the years, but in my preferred repertoire these are the ones who still resonate in memory. I’m also conscious that there are many wonderful dancers I’ve not seen, or not seen enough to have an informed recollection of them. I’m also conscious that some of those who have left the most indelible memories were not partnered together… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmhopton Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 Onegin Adam Cooper Tatiana Alina Cojacaru Olga Alina Cojacaru/Anna Rose O'Sullivan Lensky Ivan Putrov/Vadim Muntagirov Manon Marianela Nunez/Alina Cojacaru De Grieux Vadim Muntagirov/Federico Bonelli Giselle Alina Cojacaru/Francesca Hayward/Natalia Osipova Albrecht Vadim Muntagirov/Mikhail Baryshnikov Mayerling Federico Bonelli/Vadim Muntagirov Mary Natalia Osipova/Laura Morera Don Quixote Kitri Natalia Osipova Basil Ivan Vasiliev/Mikhail Baryshnikov Month in the Country Natalia Laura Morera Beliaev Vadim Muntagirov Vera Anna Rose O'Sullivan Le Corsaire Conrad Vadim Muntagirov Ali Faroukh Ruzimatov/Igor Zelensly Medora Altynai Assylmuratova Gulnara Yelena Pankova La Fille Lisa Lesley Collier/Roberta Marquez/Francesca Hayward Colas Carlos Acosta/Steven McRae La Bayadere Nikya Altynai Assylmuratova/Marianela Nunez Gamzatti Aurelie Dupont/Natalia Osipova Solor Vadim Muntagirov/Igor Zelensky Sleeping Beauty Aurora Francesca Hayward Prince Alexander Campbell Northern Ballet Anything featuring Jeremy Kerridge; Scrooge in Christmas Carol, Sancho Panza in Don Q, Renshaw in Dracula, Mercutio in Romeo and Juliet 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Wall Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, bridiem said: le to say that any one interpretation of a major role has been ‘definitive’ because, no matter how brilliant it was, that would exclude too many other interpretations of e Am I just VERY old? .... I'm amazed - nay, flabbergasted - in terms of Onegin that not ONE person here reflects the likes of Haydee (for whom the role was created after all), Maximova, Seymour or Evdokimova for Titania or Sombert or - for heaven sake - Cragen in the title role ALL OF WHOM DANCED IT FOR LFB IN LONDON BEFORE THE ROYAL EVEN ATTAINED IT (and that is to take NOTHING away from the likes/heights of Cojocaru, Rojo, Reilly or Kobburg). It's interesting certainly to me that the selections outside of the Royal - and the now historic Russian visits - in so many instances seem to be ones celebrated on video (e.g., Baryishnikov in DonQ - Did he ever it dance it here? I'm not certain ... I thought he really danced here very little - perhaps a tad more than some, like Damian Woetzel who the great man said 'out-Baryishnikov'd HIM') Vividly I remember seeing Baryishnikov in DonQ many times but that was with Kirkland and Bujones (as Espada) during the so-called 'dance boom' -- and was certainly not on these shores. Edited September 4, 2023 by Bruce Wall 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 I saw the Don Q pas de deux danced by Baryshnikov and Markarova at Sadlers Wells in the mid 70's. Maximova as Tatiana was sublime, but a Dane and a Frenchman were for me the best Onegins, Kenneth Greve and Manuel Legris. Definitive will be subjective. Reading others choices I've both shuddered and laughed at some of the names put forward. Certain dancers though can leave an indelible stamp, Has anyone danced Diamonds better than Peter Martins for example? If they have, I've not seen them, though I've seen more cubic zirconas than I can shake a stick at. Age does affect appreciation as I prefer the faster tempi of the past. Style too, there was a time audiences weren't subjected to dropped crotch jetes or six o'clock extentions, but someone must like such things I suppose. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 1 hour ago, MAB said: If they have, I've not seen them, though I've seen more cubic zirconas than I can shake a stick at. Love it! And yes, I agree about tempi and style, too. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Bruce Wall said: Am I just VERY old? .... I'm amazed - nay, flabbergasted - in terms of Onegin that not ONE person here reflects the likes of Haydee (for whom the role was created after all), Maximova, Seymour or Evdokimova for Titania or Sombert or - for heaven sake - Cragen in the title role ALL OF WHOM DANCED IT FOR LFB IN LONDON BEFORE THE ROYAL EVEN ATTAINED IT (and that is to take NOTHING away from the likes/heights of Cojocaru, Rojo, Reilly or Kobburg). It's interesting certainly to me that the selections outside of the Royal - and the now historic Russian visits - in so many instances seem to be ones celebrated on video (e.g., Baryishnikov in DonQ - Did he ever it dance it here? I'm not certain ... I thought he really danced here very little - perhaps a tad more than some, like Damian Woetzel who the great man said 'out-Baryishnikov'd HIM') Vividly I remember seeing Baryishnikov in DonQ many times but that was with Kirkland and Bujones (as Espada) during the so-called 'dance boom' -- and was certainly not on these shores. I'm not sure why you quoted me before making this rather indignant comment, since I didn't mention Onegin or Baryshnikov or Don Q at all in my list. For reasons I can't now remember or understand, I didn't enjoy Onegin when I saw it in the 1980s and have only come to appreciate it quite recently, so I don't feel I can reasonably nominate 'definitives'. (And of course others may well not have seen the performances in the 1980s.) And I didn't include Don Q because it's not a ballet that is really important to me (and no, I haven't seen Baryshnikov in it, either live or recorded). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Wall Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, bridiem said: I'm not sure why you quoted me before making this rather indignant comment, since I didn't mention Onegin or Baryshnikov or Don Q at all in my list. For reasons I can't now remember or understand, I didn't enjoy Onegin when I saw it in the 1980s and have only come to appreciate it quite recently, so I don't feel I can reasonably nominate 'definitives'. (And of course others may well not have seen the performances in the 1980s.) And I didn't include Don Q because it's not a ballet that is really important to me (and no, I haven't seen Baryshnikov in it, either live or recorded). Dear Bridie, with all due respect - I'm not aware that I quoted you AT ALL. I was merely commenting on the choices for Oneign as I thought I said: 'In terms of Oneign'. I'm sorry that you took offense at mine - and i must confess I have certainly just done the same at yours - but I know -at heart - that it was simply a matter of confusion so it is not an issue whatsoever. I send every good wish. Edited September 5, 2023 by Bruce Wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 5 minutes ago, Bruce Wall said: Dear Bridie, with all due respect - I'm not aware that I quoted you AT ALL. I was merely commenting on the choices for Oneign as I thought I said: 'In terms of Oneign'. I'm sorry that you took offense at mine - and i must confess I have certainly just done the same at yours - but I know -at heart - that it was simply a matter of confusion so it is not an issue whatsoever. I send every good wish. Well you can see above that you quoted me, Bruce, which is why I responded; but I wasn't offended, just rather bemused! At any rate - my good wishes to you too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Wall Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 Dear Bridiem - I see - JUST TO BE CLEAR - I ONLY mentioned Evdokimova in this instance because I thought she was a spectacular Titania in Onegin opposite - as I recall - Sombart. (He danced with so many great dancers in the role.) I have to say I saw Evdokimova dance much more with ABT - where she was a 'house dancer' - more than I did anywhere else. Indeed, in a way it made me laugh. I remember some people complaining when Evdokimova was on - much as they foolishly did with the stunning Martine van Hammel (did you ever see her????) because they weren't what they deemed as one of the ABT stable of stars which was vast at the time. She gave oh, so many thrilling performances both in principal and soloist roles. I especially enjoyed her in Tudor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Capricorn Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 Of course not only RB... Onegin Friedemann Vogel (only the one) Swan Lake Fumi Kaneko, Marianela Nunez, Olga Smirnova Vadim Muntagirov, Mathieu Ganio (Nureyev choreography) La Bayadere Vadim Muntagirov Fumi Kaneko (Nikia) Paul Marque, Shale Wagman (Golden Idol) Sleeping Beauty Mathieu Ganio (Nureyev choreography) Marianela Nunez Mayerling Vadim Muntagirov, Hugo Marchand Natalia Osipova (Mary) Manon Dorothée Gilbert Hugo Marchand Lady of the camellias (John Neumeier) Alina Cojocaru, Agnes Letestu Stéphane Bullion Fille Steven McRae, Mathias Heymann Natalia Osipova Giselle Olga Smirnova, Marianela Nunez Mathieu Ganio, Vadim Muntagirov Don Quixote Marianela Nunez Vadim Muntagirov, Vladimir Shklyarov 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 5 hours ago, Bruce Wall said: Dear Bridiem - I see - JUST TO BE CLEAR - I ONLY mentioned Evdokimova in this instance because I thought she was a spectacular Titania in Onegin opposite - as I recall - Sombart. (He danced with so many great dancers in the role.) I have to say I saw Evdokimova dance much more with ABT - where she was a 'house dancer' - more than I did anywhere else. Indeed, in a way it made me laugh. I remember some people complaining when Evdokimova was on - much as they foolishly did with the stunning Martine van Hammel (did you ever see her????) because they weren't what they deemed as one of the ABT stable of stars which was vast at the time. She gave oh, so many thrilling performances both in principal and soloist roles. I especially enjoyed her in Tudor. Evdokimova was amazing! Sadly I only saw her a handful of times. I don't think I ever saw van Hamel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beryl H Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 I think my perfect Odette is Svetlana Beriosova, so beautiful and full of Russian soul, I saw many performances of her and Donald Macleary🙂 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 34 minutes ago, Beryl H said: I think my perfect Odette is Svetlana Beriosova, so beautiful and full of Russian soul, I saw many performances of her and Donald Macleary🙂 I would love to have seen her! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmhopton Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 21 hours ago, Bruce Wall said: Am I just VERY old? .... I'm amazed - nay, flabbergasted - in terms of Onegin that not ONE person here reflects the likes of Haydee (for whom the role was created after all), Maximova, Seymour or Evdokimova for Titania or Sombert or - for heaven sake - Cragen in the title role ALL OF WHOM DANCED IT FOR LFB IN LONDON BEFORE THE ROYAL EVEN ATTAINED IT I never saw either Haydee or Cragen dance the roles, Bruce so I can't really comment on their interpretation, and perhaps that's the same for most people who haven't mentioned them. I did see a very old recording once but the quality was so poor I couldn't really appreciate their performances. I think I did see ENB (were they still London Festival Ballet?) dance it at the Coliseum, possibly in the late 1980s but don't remember much about it. The first (and in many ways the most memorable) performance I've seen in the title role was Adam Cooper. I would have LOVED a recording of him doing it. He did this amazingly dramatic arm movements when he was exiting the mirror which I look for every time I see it but am usually disappointed. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angela Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 Richard Cragun was a wonderful Onegin, and one of the best American dancers ever. A virtuoso who did totally effortless triple tours en l'air, a great partner and the perfect fit for Haydée in height, strength and interpretation. His Onegin was not haughty or arrogant, more lost in thought and full of ennui. He was my definitive Onegin for many, many years, but on the other hand, Adam Cooper (whose jumps were mediocre and who was a bad partner for Rojo) brought a kind of repressed aggression to the role, something sinister and a psychological depth that was very new. There are moments I still remember from the few performances I saw back then in London. What a great, great actor! And ever since I learn more about this fascinating Pushkin (and Cranko) character with every new interpretation, mainly that there is not definitive interpretation - there are several ways to dance Onegin, and only few dancers like Cooper understand the character from the start, most of them need some performances or even some years. I adored Jiri Jelinek at Stuttgart, I still love Jason Reilly and Friedemann Vogel, Oliver Matz was great in Munich and much later Vladimir Shklyarov. I would have loved to see more Russian dancers in the role, Zelensky, Mukhamedov or Malakhov, they never did it. Among my big disappointments in the role, just because they were such famous names, I count Rex Harrington, Manuel Legris (who walked past Tatiana's window after he disappeared through the mirror, aaargh!) and, I know you will hate me, Johan Kobborg. Vladislav Lantratov broke the fourth wall and looked directly into the audience several times, that was strange. As for Tatianas, it's very hard to get somewhere near Haydée's interpretation. And still, there are so many honest and deeply emotional ballerinas who draw you into the performance every time you see the ballet. Cranko created two of the most challenging roles for dancers, I think. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Dancer Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 On 04/09/2023 at 15:27, bridiem said: When I started compiling my list, I realised that for me it’s pretty much impossible to say that any one interpretation of a major role has been ‘definitive’ because, no matter how brilliant it was, that would exclude too many other interpretations of equal but different brilliance. In fact, the only role for which I could do this is a character role where I do really believe that there has been/is one definitive interpretation… But I think this is because a great role does generally permit different great interpretations rather than one definitive one. Also, I find to my surprise that there are dancers I love/have loved who don’t appear on the list. I think that’s either because they are/were excellent in many roles but not necessarily ‘definitive’ in one, and/or because I haven’t yet seen them often enough in the role/s. (I do think that it normally takes a number of performances for me to consider an interpretation ‘definitive’, though there are a few exceptions to this below. This is also why the list is very RB-heavy, because I have seen more performances by the RB than by any other company.) And there are other roles I could have included, but this post would then be even longer I would agree that I struggle to identify definitive portrayals. There are dancers I've enjoyed very much because I like the way they do things but not sure I could say they were the definitive portrayal. I love the way Vadim jumps and how completely in the moment he always is. I love the way Marianela moves and I love Fumi for her port de bras. I would watch Benn Gartside being a villain for ages because I love the way he does it. Looking at BRB I love how Tzu-Chao always hangs in the air a second longer than anyone else and the way Brandon moves. There are some dancers I don't connect with as well as others (Osipova doesn't reach me hugely well - much as I can see her amazing talent). Some are less good in some roles. But I can't say I've ever seen something and thought it the definitive version. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 Of course, if there were a "definitive" version of something, why would anyone else bother trying to dance it? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 22 minutes ago, alison said: Of course, if there were a "definitive" version of something, why would anyone else bother trying to dance it? To try to better even the definitive version! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 Actually, I have thought of another interpretation that is 'definitive' for me: Vadim Muntagirov in Ashton's Dance of the Blessed Spirits. I have only seen him dance it online, but he was, fundamentally, perfect. (And because this was during the pandemic, his performance had a unique and very poignant significance which only added to its power.) 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scheherezade Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 2 hours ago, Sim said: To try to better even the definitive version! But then it wouldn’t have been definitive. Although, of course, nothing can ever be anything more than the best to date. And then again, definitive for one person may be run of the mill for another. Performances stay in the memory for so many reasons. Some are due to the quality of the dance; some are down to dramatic heft: others to the dancer’s charisma. For sheer charisma, it’s hard to think of anyone who could come close to Nureyev; Baryshnikov for knock ‘em dead, spin-on-a-pin technique; Dowell for the breathtaking beauty of his line; Makarova for the the aching gorgeousness of those limbs. There are some performances that thrill with an irrepressible joie de vivre and, here, that first Osipiva/Vasiliev Don Q would take some beating. For emotional intensity, it surely has to be Lynn Seymour. Vadim’s recent triumph as Rudolf - entirely unexpected and totally against type - brought a very different kind of thrill. And hats off to Matthew Ball for bringing something completely different to the table with his extraordinary ’entitled public schoolboy’ Tybalt. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmhopton Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 1 hour ago, bridiem said: Actually, I have thought of another interpretation that is 'definitive' for me: Vadim Muntagirov in Ashton's Dance of the Blessed Spirits. I have only seen him dance it online, but he was, fundamentally, perfect. (And because this was during the pandemic, his performance had a unique and very poignant significance which only added to its power.) I was just going to mention this 'definitive for me' point, bridiem. You just beat me to it. Of course, no performance is definitive full stop otherwise there would be no room for individual interpretation, let alone no point in anyone else attempting it. All performing arts are so individual and unique you could see a 'definitive' performance one night so you have to go and see that person do it again, possibly to be disappointed the second time as either the artist (or yourself) may not be having a great day. Sometimes, just seeing a 'definitive ' performance can place intolerable expectations on the next visit. When I saw Osipova/Vasiliev debut Don Q at the Coliseum I thought that was a definitive performance. So much so that I had to se them again ASAP, the following Saturday. To me, that second performance was a bit of a disappointment as my expectations were so high. But I heard other people say it was even better, so individual perception plays a part too. More recently after seeing Vadim debut in Mayerling I was slightly apprehensive that his second performance could not live up to the (for me) seemingly impossible high standard he had set in that debut. (How could a debut performance of the most challenging role in classical ballet be so amazing?) Unbelievably his second performance exceeded his first. I just didn't want it to end, or forget a single moment of it. But the beauty of ballet is someone can do a completely different interpretation the next night that is someone else's 'definitive ' performance and so it goes on. Perhaps the constant search for our own individual 'definitive' performances is why we keep coming back and seeing the same ballet with as many different casts as we can. Long may it continue! 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scheherezade Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 I totally agree, jmhopton. And, as you say, expectation has such an enormous part to play in our reaction to live performance. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irmgard Posted September 7, 2023 Share Posted September 7, 2023 Like some other contributors to this thread, I do not have any ‘definitive’ performances of artists in roles but I do have some I use as benchmarks for their sublime artistry, at least one going back almost fifty years, including (artists in alphabetical order): Giselle: Evelyne Desutter, Eva Evdokimova, Natalia Makarova, Fernanda Oliveira Albrecht: Mikhail Baryshnikov, Estéban Berlanga, Cesar Corrales, Yosvani Ramos Myrtha: Manola Asensio Aurora: Jurgita Dronina, Eva Evdokimova, Karen Kain, Agnes Oaks Odette/Odile: Begoña Cao, Jurgita Dronina, Margot Fonteyn (Act II), Evelyn Hart, Karen Kain, Natalia Makarova Lise: Marianela Nuñez, Karen Paisey Tatiana: Marcia Haydée, Natalia Makarova Onegin: Richard Cragun Lensky: Mark Silver Natalia Petrovna: Natalia Makarova, Marguerite Porter, Lynn Seymour Belaiev: Anthony Dowell, Vadim Muntagirov, Mark Silver Vera: Denise Nunn, Karen Paisey Raymonda Act III (Nureyev): Elena Glurgidze Juliet: Begoña Cao, Jurgita Dronina, Alessandra Ferri Romeo: Cesar Corrales, Wayne Eagling Paris: Julian Hosking Manon: Jurgita Dronina, Alessandra Ferri, Jennifer Penney, Fernanda Oliveira Des Grieux: Wayne Eagling, Francesco Gabriele Frola Lescaut: Cesar Corrales, Stephen Jefferies, Fabian Reimair La Sylphide: Eva Evdokimova James: Mikhail Baryshnikov 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 (edited) After mulling this over for some time Margot Fonteyn as Aurora Deanne Bersma as Myrtha Georgina Parkinson as Fairy Godmother Edited September 21, 2023 by MAB typo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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