Suffolkgal Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 I have to say, I am having to consider very seriously how often I will go next season. With the added costs of travelling and everything stretched, all those contemporary works aren’t attractive. One Nutcracker one Beauty for sure. I sit at the back of the amphi and those two alone will be about £100. I’ve seen endless Mayerlings and giving it a miss. Maybe a Cinderella. I think they will really struggle to sell a lot of the forthcoming programme. We will see and I shall be so interested to read the comments on this site as the performances get under way as I trust all your judgement! personally I’d have done Fille, a nice Macmillan triple bill ... heigh ho. Agree with comments above regarding other companies 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 2 hours ago, Lynette H said: Seat prices for Woolf Works are up as well https://www.roh.org.uk/seatmap?performanceId=51374 The relative prices on this chart seem to be more in line with reality than those for Sleeping Beauty. But astronomical all the same........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 I can’t see any prices is this info just not available to general public yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scheherezade Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 16 hours ago, maryrosesatonapin said: I cannot understand why non-RB companies are comparatively such incredible value. Don’t tempt fate, maryrosesatonapin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oncnp Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 (edited) 16 hours ago, maryrosesatonapin said: I cannot understand why non-RB companies are comparatively such incredible value. I'm not defending these exorbitant prices (at all) but the RB may have a different cost structure. The dancers are better paid (according to the last Equity report in 2018) and what other company has to help support the massive physical (and aging) plant that is the ROH complex? And if Floss is correct, they may be supporting an opera company as well. Edited July 23, 2022 by oncnp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scheherezade Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 15 hours ago, alison said: Let's face it, even "bulletproof" productions like Romeo & Juliet and La Traviata didn't sell out (hardly surprising with the latter, given the amount it appears to have been over-scheduled in recent years). Unsurprisingly, there are far fewer problems in disposing of the heavily discounted tickets. Does it not occur to whoever decides upon pricing that ticket sales generally would be much higher if there was a greater volume of reasonably priced seats? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebird Posted July 23, 2022 Author Share Posted July 23, 2022 53 minutes ago, LinMM said: I can’t see any prices is this info just not available to general public yet? if you’re accessing the page on a phone, the prices might not show up until you click on ‘filters’. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peony Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 I’m quite shocked that the ticket price for SB is £112 4 rows back in the amphi… I suspect the ROH will discover that they have a ceiling price and that £500 for a family day trip out sitting in soso seats is just not an attractive prospect. I understand that the premium seats are perhaps taken by those who won’t be unduly affected by the price increases but I wonder if it’s the same for the less premium? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 On 22/07/2022 at 15:12, Bluebird said: The price chart is now up and the best Upper Slips seats for The Magic Flute are £15 (as opposed to £22 for Beauty). https://www.roh.org.uk/seatmap?performanceId=51369 All I can think is that the department which sets the prices for ballet is not the same as the one that sets the prices for opera. I've just noticed that these US slips seats are cheaper for *Tannhauser* (£19) than for Sleeping Beauty! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peony Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 Having compared nutcracker prices for 2017 to 2022 it looks like a 60-70% increase. I do think for a company that receives a considerable amount of public funding and has a remit to be accessible and open access to the arts that sort of increase needs to be justified. I wonder how many of the sub £50 tickets will be available for general booking? For some reason the newest accounts available seem to be 2020. Maybe I’m reading incorrectly but they seem to have been awarded a government grant (presumably the covid one) which seemed to make up largely for the reduced ticket sales 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oncnp Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, Peony said: For some reason the newest accounts available seem to be 2020. Maybe I’m reading incorrectly but they seem to have been awarded a government grant (presumably the covid one) which seemed to make up largely for the reduced ticket sales Companies House has accounts through 29 August 2021. I do not think the ROH received any grants. I believe they did receive several multimillion pound loans which must be paid back with interest. Other companies (ENB, BRB) did receive grants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peony Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 https://static.roh.org.uk/about/annual-review/pdfs/ROH-Annual-Report-2019-2020.pdf they’ve categorised it as ‘government grant’ rather than loan or similar. They definitely received some funding from furlough etc. I don’t know perhaps the accounts filed give more detail but the figures on their annual review seem to suggest about 1/7 loss in income compared to the year before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotadanceMa Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 (edited) Interest on the loans are very low and they have a 20 year period to pay it back with a four year window before repayments start. ROH said that they are hoping to reach ‘all ages from all backgrounds’ with their new exciting program. 😂 Honestly what planet are they living on??? I understand the dismay on here about the price hikes, but the ticket pricing at ROH has always excluded IME anyone with a low income always. It is exclusive and elitist. I once bought birthday seats (the cheapest seats) for my child and I to see a ballet right up in the gods. We left at the interval because it was so disorientating a position to view from. On getting our coats I was asked why we were leaving and told them; only to be told the tickets we bought were really only tickets for ‘listening’ to the ballet, not watching. Never have I heard such utter elitist nonsense; ‘listening tickets!!!!!’ My opinion will not be a popular one, but ROH is the last bastion of everything that is wrong with the arts. It needs addressing and it needs addressing quickly. The ticket pricing excludes the majority of the public, and yes there are concessions for job seekers (or there were, but they seem to have disappeared and for people with disabilities (don’t get me started on the hoops ROH make you jump through to verify your disability and yes it is completely different to any other theatre access scheme). And of course the rigmarole of trying to get one of the elusive ‘cheaper tickets’ that are released. It feels like the thinking behind this is, let’s just make it as hard as we possibly can for people who have less money to access a ticket, let them scrabble for them. Yuck! I always thought it was funny that my child could be trained by the RBS but could never watch them perform. Needs to change, but of course it won’t. Thank goodness for the other wonderful arts venues in London and the U.K. that are accessible and do recognise low and no income households in their ticket pricing. Edited July 24, 2022 by NotadanceMa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 9 minutes ago, NotadanceMa said: The ticket pricing excludes the majority of the public And yet you can buy tickets to the ROH that cost much less than any Premier League football match (and tens of thousands of members of the public can afford this every week, and to travel around to away matches), or just about every cinema in London. I would love to go to a few football matches each season, but at £40-50 a pop for high-up seats, I can see two or four ballets (stalls circle standing) for the price of one football match. Likewise West End theatres...a decent seat in any of them will set you back between £60-£100. Yes some of the seat prices are ridiculous at the ROH next season, and in an ideal world there would be many more affordable ones, but compared to the events/venues mentioned above it is hardly 'elitist' when you can get in for less than £15...something you can no longer do at most WE theatres or cinemas or PL football grounds. I can afford to go to the ROH (because I stand or take a cheap seat) but not the theatre and nor a football match. Which is the elitist one? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oncnp Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Sim said: I can see two or four ballets (stalls circle standing) for the price of one football match. Y it is hardly 'elitist' when you can get in for less than £15...something you can no longer do at most WE theatres or cinemas or PL football grounds. 1. If you can get one of the very limited number of SCS tickets and most go to Friends so that cost must be factored in 2. Yes you may be able to "get in" but what's the point if you can't see anything? and how much government aid does football or west end theatres receive? That's a serious question as I have no idea. Edited July 24, 2022 by oncnp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 I think it makes a difference how far ahead you are able to book, and conversely if you are able to attend at short notice if a good value seat pops up. I've just had a very quick look at a few Mayerling dates - due to open to General Booking on Wednesday I think - and their isn't much on offer for £20 or less. The best of these will presumably sell quite quickly so somebody on that budget and checking back in, say, September might not find much left with a reasonable (though distant!) view. On the other hand, ROH might be attempting to shift tickets through discounting by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 Premier League football doesn't get government aid; they don't need it. They get huge amounts of money from TV and sponsorship deals instead. Much more than any grant any arts company gets. But then, dancers and performers are not getting the ridiculous amounts of money that footballers get. But I don't hear many people complaining about £200k per week salaries and very high ticket prices at PL stadia as elitist. I don't know about grants for WE theatres. Yes, you can see if you "get in". I have stood at the very top of the amphi and can see fine. Yes there are a few seats or standing places that are severely limited vision, but those are not the majority. I have been going to the ROH for 45 years and have stood and sat everywhere. The only places that I no longer use are the slips nearer to the stage, or lower slips standing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxDaveM Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 10 minutes ago, oncnp said: 1. If you can get one of the very limited number of SCS tickets and most go to Friends so that cost must be factored in 2. Yes you may be able to "get in" but what's the point if you can't see anything? and how much government aid does football or west end theatres receive? That's a serious question as I have no idea. 1. they do seem to hold back a good few SCS places for public booking these days - if you're quick! 2. all but 8 or so of those standing places afford an excellent view (no heads in front of you) - if you don't mind standing (and standing for the last 70mins+ of Beauty is a tough ask as you grow older) Aid for footie from the government - nil (the TV companies corner the market, which has led to the huge wages and transfer fees in the Premiership) WE theatres - also nil, but market forces mean they either run for YEARS..... or 5mins 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxDaveM Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 the steep prices for something like Beauty may suit the RB very well - folk will pay the rates and go only once (most people, lets be honest, will only go the once, unlike us die hard fans), which means lots of once-only ticket buyers can go, which seems to be their brief. I sometimes get the impression that they think people who go multiple times are nut jobs! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oncnp Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 11 minutes ago, Sim said: Yes, you can see if you "get in". I have stood at the very top of the amphi and can see fine. I guess that depends on what you want to see. I have also sat in the amphi and it's good for general patterns but no detail which is what I go for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postie Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 I have never been quite sure what the phrase "During the pandemic we lost £3 in every £5 of our income" is telling us. It isn't claiming a financial loss, and staff - though not freelancers - had the sanctuary of furlough. Whether the ROH made up the other 10% I don't know. It seems inevitable you would lose income with the building closed, the issue is remaining overheads. What is clear is that the ticketing model has changed. What I do note is there are significantly more tickets available because there are more performances yet prices have increased to the point of it reducing attendance. So that's already a curious dynamic to me. It does seem to also mean availability of all types of tickets increasing at each stage of release, both Friends and Public though perhaps not much to the advantage of Friends. It seems to me we are in the early stages of this new model of increased performances / increased pricing / public release holdback / under 25s / etc. ROH clearly had a lot of time during lockdown to have a deep data mine. I'm not convinced what we are seeing now is entirely to do with the pandemic, or very much - though it might be convenient for the ROH to have that hanging in the air. btw, I am not aware of ticket price increases on Roseberry Avenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 21 minutes ago, oncnp said: I guess that depends on what you want to see. I have also sat in the amphi and it's good for general patterns but no detail which is what I go for. I go for both, depending on what the ballet is. If I am far away I use binoculars for detail. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, postie said: I have never been quite sure what the phrase "During the pandemic we lost £3 in every £5 of our income" is telling us. It isn't claiming a financial loss, and staff - though not freelancers - had the sanctuary of furlough. But furlough paid 80% and up to £30,000/year (so 80% of a maximum £37.5kpa) I think? Many if not most ROH employees will have been on a higher salary than that and I believe that the ROH made up at least some of that difference as people still have mortgages to pay and families to feed and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 (edited) 27 minutes ago, oncnp said: I guess that depends on what you want to see. I have also sat in the amphi and it's good for general patterns but no detail which is what I go for. Can I make my usual plea for people not to conflate the whole of the amphi? Rear and front amphi are very different beasts! (I can see detail but not fine detail from the front - and certainly not just "general patterns"!) Edited July 24, 2022 by Lizbie1 close speech marks 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postie Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 (edited) Sorry, I remembered furlough as 90% but I'm sure 80% is correct Edited July 24, 2022 by postie clarity 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 Oh! One other thing about the ROH payroll is that they have a full-time, permanent orchestra, which I don't think any other UK ballet companies do? That is an expensive thing to have sitting idle, furloughed or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oncnp Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 9 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said: Can I make my usual plea for people not to conflate the whole of the amphi? Rear and front amphi are very different beasts! (I can see detail but not fine detail from the front - and certainly not just "general patterns"!) I envy your eyesight! 👀Front row of amphi is only general pattern for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said: Oh! One other thing about the ROH payroll is that they have a full-time, permanent orchestra, which I don't think any other UK ballet companies do? That is an expensive thing to have sitting idle, furloughed or not. Yes, they have a large orchestra and two large companies to pay. Plus the rest of the staff. Furlough was 80%….my company made up the other 20% so we were lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oncnp Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 9 minutes ago, Sim said: Yes, they have a large orchestra and two large companies to pay. Plus the rest of the staff. Furlough was 80%….my company made up the other 20% so we were lucky. Everyone at the ROH took at least a 20% pay cut but credit where due, they did not lay off the company (Kevin O'Hare said it was discussed). Anyone making over 75K continues with a pay reduction as of the latest accounts at Companies House. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peony Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 I do think it’s slightly misleading for ROH to quote the reduced ticket income when they also had reduced expenditure and increased income from other sources so their overall deficit was not as bad as it would seem. I guess how much the increase cost affects you depends on your individual circumstances. Obviously with a family there’s less choice of tickets when you need multiples together and the price increase is multiplied whilst being paid by one or two incomes. I think the inability to book until all premium (costly) friends tiers have booked and the lack of any ticket concessions for children/ means tested benefits etc compounds the issue and undoubtedly reduces access. Many other companies/ theatres: sports etc do provide those discounts. I do think a publically funded arts organisation have a duty to promote access in a way that other organisations don’t. Even row R of the amphi is over £70 now so it will be interesting to see how many tickets at less than that are available for general release and how quickly they get snapped up. The cinema screenings are good but even they are twice the price of a normal film. ROH spend a very large amount on widening participation I just feel like they’re not really achieving their aim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 1 hour ago, oncnp said: I guess that depends on what you want to see. I have also sat in the amphi and it's good for general patterns but no detail which is what I go for. I always sit in the Amphi (barring the very occasional gift ticket in the stalls) and by using opera glasses I see a huge amount of detail as well as getting the general patterns when not using them. I know that when you use opera glasses you miss other things, but after years of practice I can switch in and out of using the opera glasses almost instinctively in order to maximise the benefits of both perspectives. I too go for detail; but I also go for patterns and shape which you simply don't get from lower down in the house. So I get a bit tired of hearing how impossible it is to sit in the Amphi. I think that the front of the Amphi (though I sit at the sides) are probably the best seats in the house, and I consider myself incredibly privileged to have seen many hundreds of brilliant performances from the Amphi over the years. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNC Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 I also agree the amphi provides an excellent viewpoint - unrestricted due to the high rake. The front central section with binoculars provides good clear detail on faces and ability to view patterns from the amphi I often prefer my actually. Having said that I do think the very back of the amphi won’t provide facial details even with binoculars to the level that might be preferable. I think those seats are incredibly reasonable if they are £25-30 or less, but to pay £40-50 for Row R for example I think is not reasonable. In an ideal world the stalls would be reasonable but I accept that I’m priced out of them - and always have been. This doesn’t bother me if I have other seats I can sit in - unrestricted view, I admit I do like to be central (but have done side amphi as a compromise and found it ok, but don’t want do the slips) and yes I have no issue standing but the tickets are usually sold out by the time my level of friends booking (but I count myself lucky as I can usually get 1-2 a season, which I know is more than most!). I would also say I’ve been priced out of the front half of the amphi for a while as well, but the middle section used to be “affordable” for me and I thought it was good value for money. Now the prices there have doubled, and spending £60 or more for seats that used to be half that price feels unfair. Have the stalls seats doubled in price. (Neither should in any case!) My issue with the ‘new’ pricing is more around the vast increases we have seen in the amphi and other seats that were more “reasonable” - proportionally much higher than the most expensive stalls, which to me feels like hitting those who can’t afford price increases the hardest. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 This picture was taken from row U of the amphitheatre. With a decent pair of binoculars (mine cost about £20 or £25 from Jessops) you really can see facial expressions etc. from up there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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