Michelle_Richer

This is an advance warning I received by Email from ENB, its not on their website yet, but it will be very shortly. Due to popular demand, we have decided to hold more Taster Sessions for our evening classes on Wednesday 18 September: Level 2, 7pm-8.15pm – led by Sarah Golightly – Take part in a one-off taster session in which you can sample English National Ballet's Level 2 Adult Ballet class. A good opportunity for those currently attending Level 1 classes to experience a slightly more advanced class - or for anybody with some dance experience who is thinking of getting involved! Ages 18+ BalletFit, 7pm-8pm – led by Rhiann Keys – A chance to sample ENB's unique BalletFit class. BalletFit is an exercise class inspired by ballet techniques, which focuses on pilates and core-strength exercises. No experience is necessary to take part. Ages 18+

Hi Janet Thank you for your comment but I’m not quite sure how to take it, we are all unique in some way, I had hoped mine would have been seen in terms of commitment and determination to succeed in ballet. Rather than being a lucky rich bitch, I know you didn’t use those words but that could be an interpretation. Like Lin, I have now finished my normal working life after a very successful long term career, so that’s how I have the time. As for the money, I’m really not rich but I am reasonable comfortable solely from my retirement income from my long term career. Lin I know many people would not be able to keep up with my schedule, but that’s just me, I have an appetite to progress and in particular to dance. As I do so much ballet my body is pretty well conditioned to that and doesn’t require recovery time, I guess it perpetually in a state of readiness. I would have thought that type of fitness level was a positive attribute. I also realise the more I do, the more risk I have of injury, having sustained minor injuries in the past I’m always mindful of this. There is only one way to guarantee my ballet to be free of injury, is to not do it, for me that’s not an option. Moomin Whilst I kind of agree with your statement “I would agree with you lin that it is obvious to everyone in a class who is a beginner and who is not! To me it is mainly about the grace, control and positioning” there is also whole lot missing too, and that’s preparation, spacial awareness, timing, synchronism with other dancers as well as continuous elegant flow of movement, particularly for performing, that goes along way towards presentation. Especially as my main interest as a dancer is performing ballet from the classics. Balleteacher Yes I agree ballet should be fun and enjoyment, I would also say work should too, especially as you spend the majority of your conscious life doing it, that certainly was true for me, so in that context I guess I was lucky. As for a test of endurance, that is just a means to an end for me, and if you haven't gathered it already I will always go that extra mile to achieving my goal. I like your comment “adult ballet should be a source of stress relief as opposed to a source of stress”, I still get butterflies just before I go on stage and think hope I will remember everything, the mind is the problem, the body should know what it has to do after umpteen rehearsals, but sometimes you think just bit too much and the mind blanks for a second, before regaining the thread. I also agree that “Adult ballet can also be a good social experience”, I'm meeting a lot of the same dancers at each of my repertoire workshops but also I am contributing to that regular core through publicise events on this forum or just passing the word around the different classes I attend, consequently you build a strong body of dancers to make these events viable and get to meet a lot of your regular dancing friends too. Anjuli I love your last post, especially the last paragraph. For me, I have no ties, my partner died some time ago and my little dog died last year, and as my working life is over (sounds better than the R word), so I guess I'm well immersed in ballet now. I think for me it has gone beyond just a hobby in the normal sense of the word, possibly to a lifestyle choice, as mentioned in another thread on this forum. For me that’s unimportant, its just something I need to do and get on with.

Alison The lower studio was complete rubbish wit regard to a sticky floor for a whole term, however last term which finishes tomorrow, both of my classes were in the upper studio, and that’s generally OK. Everyone: Normal classes resumed today, First class was body balance, found that balance on my right leg was rubbish, but not sure why. Second class was Ballet at Stamford, odd as it may seem we did an Arabesque en liar and then promenade round 225degrees using my right leg as the supporting leg, it was rock solid hardly a wobble, the best I have known it, which is in stark contrast to Body balance, how odd?. We also did Cabriole as part of a short grand allegro sequence, apparently we are going to do a separate one each week, then at the end of term we are going to add them all together. The cabriole was a new one for me, I have tried it at Pineapple but it was always an option as I was unsuccessful I dropped it as many others did. But this after a few tries today, I got it, that’s now my new homework for that class. Third class was Ballet at Lincoln, really nice night in spite of a rubbish sticky floor for pirouettes. It looks like another public paying performance for Christmas as they are sorting out theatre and box-office details; we are combining our efforts with two other schools. We should know something next week. Went through a little bit of my Giselle workshop with my teacher but we didn’t have much time. When I left Lincoln tonight it was a bit of a shock as it was dark, as was the long drive home.

My view would be Swan Lake is likely to be better, but having said that, I haven't experienced any of ENB rep workshops yet. The write up isn't particularly good. Also I haven't had any feedback as to what we will be doing on the other ENB one.

Hi Lin I guess we have a piece of common ground if I slightly change the wording of one of your statements: “The standard at which you express yourself would in the end determine you’re perceived level”. This is the strategy I'm following, its not enough for me to learn a piece of repertoire at a workshop and allow that work and body memory to fade with time. My philosophy is to regularly refresh it (or in other words rehearse it) to keep it current and by using structured teacher feedback, enhance both the underlying technique and presentation to a good performing standard. The bones of that strategy have already been laid down. I'm already seeing one of my teachers on Wednesday to discuss private tuition/monitoring for this, I have three other possible tutors that I may approach as this develops. Its not my intention to just go to ballet class do a few exercises and be fairly good at doing centre work, or for general fitness. Its to ultimately to perform solo rolls on stage regularly where ever the opportunity arises. I have the drive and determination to make his happen, irrespective of some of the negative comments that come my way. If I can just pic up on an earlier comment from Balleteacher “If students are not in the right level then it can also impact upon others in the class”, I guess I do, particularly at my local classes, but not for the reason implied that I would hold them back. Just the opposite, I will often make suggestions to enhance centre work, admittedly I cant do that with every teacher as it may be perceived that I am undermining them, but most I have a good relationship with and they understand my enthusiasm. And if they don’t want to accept my suggestion they will probably say “Shut up Michelle”, we exchange smiles and no offence is taken on my part. I realise my enthusiasm is a handful for most teachers, but that’s how I come, that part of my character. Lin you may call me a beginner based on dates, but I wonder what impact does active learning hours have, I'm sure the professionals will have a field day with this one, especially as we have completely different mind-sets. I'm very much a go getter and in no way passive. I wonder how many beginners would contemplate trialling 6 ballet sessions in one day with a 500mile round trip with a view of checking the logistics of turning that into a weekly occurrence. I guess that blows the mind-set of many on this forum, but it does demonstrate my determination and commitment to succeed.

9.30 to 12.30 on the 5th of January 2014 at the London Coliseum Take part in a ballet class focussing on core technical elements of flexibility, strength and alignment. Learn extracts from English National Ballet’s sparkling production of Nutcracker, and watch the dancers in class as they prepare for the performance. Follow the link: http://www.ballet.org.uk/whats-on/nutcracker/adult-ballet-workshop-nutcracker/ I have already booked.

Hi Moomin Yes and I do both classes, so it is a real treat. Northern Ballet I've been quite busy with three summer schools following each other and several workshops too, in addition to all that I've still attended my two classes at ENB, so I've still remained petty busy, but did drop the fitness training during the break. So I will get a rude awakening at 10.30 tomorrow morning with my first body balance class.

Hi Lin I know this is a very subjective term, that’s why I’m asking the question, especially as it has been banded about so much. Many in adult ballet have done grading as youngsters, this is certainly true of ladies my local class, but now they have even forgotten many of the very familiar terms that we use every day as well as being quite rusty with the associated movements. But do we regard those as beginners, against your grade of 3 and 4 criteria they are clearly not. Then of course we have the anomalies like myself, which have not or intends to follow a formal RAD/ISTD or what ever grading route, but never he less will follow a progressive structured learning pattern as my aptitude and experience allows. As you say your beginner tag would only apply to ballet training, my view is quite different. I don’t believe body change and conditioning come from ballet classes alone, especially if you are only talking of up to three classes a week. I believe physical but related training is essential, my view is that you must take a completely holistic approach and where I differ significantly from the views expressed on this thread, is the value of practicing to develop your own sense of independence and confidence. That is not to say you only copy from training material and have no independent feedback. Like the Giselle variation we are both doing, I’m gradually going through the material independently, the bits I’m not sure about, I have asked questions on his forum and I will be seeing my Lincoln teacher view after class tomorrow night. I have already email my Angles Theatre teacher to try and arrange regular private sessions before class on the repertoire I am building up, so that remains refreshed and the underlying techniques enhanced to a good performance standard. But never the less that simply does not fit in with what has been expressed as a beginner, nor work I expect a beginner to tackle the type of ballet I’m doing let alone what I am contemplating in the future.

I will when I see them next, which will probably be in a couple of weeks as I will be on a three week break from ENB, that way I minimise my weekly trips to London. Never the less I have found a new school to fill in for the ENB break. No rest for this girl. Full loading of classes next week as everyone is back off summer beak, and I'm quite looking forward too it.

Hi Janet I have checked out the link as I do both the ROH classes from time to time, that’s my treat of the month as they are so expensive, especially as Pineapple just down the road only charge £8.00 a class plus £2.00 entry. There pricing this time looks strange too, ROH was always more expensive that the rest which was understandable, I cant remember the charges for the others but I thought it was around £15.00, but they appear to be the same as ROH now, And I really don’t understand why the over 60’s is the most expensive and no drop in price either

Lin :Firstly there are no formal grading classes for adults local to me, early on I did enquire, I guess there is always the private route, but all this takes a great deal of time, that I really don’t have, but then I have to ask myself what would I gain as I’m not making a career out of it or auditioning. Also am I really likely to be able to remember and be able to execute efficiently all the ballet movements detailed in the dictionary of classical ballet, I think not. For me, its better to spend what little time I have remaining in my lifetime focusing on repertoire holistically, so that I can perform the limited number of movements and connecting steps necessary to perform those pieces I have learnt with grace and elegance that it deserves, to be presented to an audience in an aesthetically pleasing manner. As my overall aim is to perform and perform well. As for your suggestion of a year, what assumptions would that be based upon, number of ballet specific classes per week, other dance related experience, general fitness, number of related body condoning/fitness classes per week or time for the body to adjust or what? Balleteacher: The term beginner was not one I conjured up, but one you and Anjuli use regularly, so I think we need to put some context behind it.

Hi Balleteacher Thank you for coming back to my comments, as for asking questions, I would say I probably go a little bit further than that with my teachers, the relationship is quite close and direct, as I actively seek both feedback from class work and advice on other ballet work I’m doing, if there’s problems with my progress I will get that message loud and clear, furthermore I also seek homework from some of my teachers. As finding the right muscle groups etc, we have had this discussing before, whilst I do think it would be beneficial, it plain and simply does not happen in the majority of the cases, I personally are trying to become reasonably well read on the subject by utilising the time I’m travelling on the train for my London Ballet trips. As for progressing, most adult classes I attend have no progression system, its seen mainly as a recreational class, however with mixed ability dancers ranging from ex-professional down to absolute beginners, its not uncommon for easier and harder options to be used eg third / fifth position plus mainly off the barre exercises to be a little different too. However my ENB classes do operate a grading scheme ranging from level one (Absolute beginner) to level 4 (Advanced). Progression decision is left entirely to the dancer, but there is a pre-course taster session to allow dancers to try before they buy so to speak. As you say many dancers do seek the view of there teacher, I was with her at the end of the taster session when this happened, I didn’t, there was no need we knew each other’s mind from our continuous feedback dialog. I certainly don’t need encouragement to move up. As for openness to feedback, this depends very much on the type of class it is and also the student’s aspirations. My local teacher has a small village ballet class of about a dozen dancers, mostly are retired ladies and a couple of young mums. I know she is very concerned about giving critical feedback where they are only there for recreational purposes, so as not to upset them. We have an entirely different relationship, I positively seek feedback and get it with enthusiasm, even if it’s to say, “your not quite there yet”. She is fully aware of the other classes I attend and performances I’m involved with. This teacher is very much a stickler for technique and good lines etc. So to some extent she does keep me on the strait and narrow, however the number of movements covered are limited and quite basic, but never the less its good fundamental grounding. Quality of classes for me is about the continuance of the learning process, but as you can see most of mine are structured on recreational lines, so the training aspect is somewhat limited, there are others like Pineapple were you need to know what you are doing and are quite fun, but you don’t necessarily learn an awful lot from them. No class that I attend at present has any form of documented syllabus, not even ENB which I rate as one of my best. As for the above comment, you are preaching to the converted, however bad habits can originate from teachers too, particularly where something is over emphasised to make a point. A case in point was my local teacher teaching Grand Battements and emphasize going through a tendu, particularly the close, all in the class including the teacher developed almost “and in” for the tendu as a separate and somewhat aggressive move. This aggression was spotted at ENB when I did level1 and corrected, never the less the close is something I still positively look for, when I got to level 3 on my first day, my new teachers demonstration did not appear to go through a tendu, so when she asked if there was any questions, without engaging my brain I said “should you have closed through a tendu?”, to which she replied “are you criticising my technique?”, Oh woops, I quickly had to recover the situation, but when she re-demonstrated it, it was clearly visible. Perhaps I should have said “Should I be closing through a Tendu?”. For me that tendu point of contact is always visible, but it’s part of a continues movement. I still curious to the unanswered question “At what point does one loose the label beginner?”

Hi Anjuli and Balleteacher As always I’m intrigued by your comment, however I have a few basic questions: 1)At what point does one loose the label beginner? 2)Anjuli comments in para 1 focuses on expansion of class schedule, should this not include the simple things like resistance band work and relevés to strengthen the ankles and feet, something I would have thought was essential early on. 3)I note your recommendation in para 4 is: 3 classes a week after the first year, I’m not sure what you would make of my 12, and to some extent I would probably agree that 12 may be too many as I need to go for quality rather than quantity, but that’s down to selection and availability and not necessarily the number. 4)I note the last sentence in para 5 states “Working by yourself in not recommended”, whilst I understand the logic, I think there is an important point lost. Firstly learning is largely done by repetition, confidence is build by knowing you have the ability to do it yourself. Always under the guidance of a teacher I feel can create an element of dependency. Whilst I think I would agree with you comment right at the beginning of a dancer’s introduction to ballet, much beyond that, I think they need to progressively develop an element of independence and confidence. Even now with some of the higher level classes I attend, I see dancers at the end of the centre barre swap over sides when they come to do the exercise on the other foot, so they always have someone to follow. These dancers generally have a lot more experience than me, but a bit of that confidence is missing. I don’t move if I’m on the end of the centre barre, I have to take on board the difficulty and use the independence of my brain to sort it out, or at least try and remember the steps. It amazing what you can do when you have to think for yourself. 5)Balleteacher: why should speed have anything to do with learning bad habits, for me I would rather dance badly than not dance at all, I can always get better. One shouldn’t be frightened to make a mistake, that’s how we learn and progress. I like your comment “Dance is totally not just about learning steps. It is an art which involves crafting and refining. This needs guidance from teachers”, however I come at this from a slightly different perspective. I do a lot of repertoire workshops with my preference of solo rolls from some of the classics. Prior to a workshop I learn and practice that scene so I am at least familiar with it, be it badly, whatever, that’s not that important. When I attend workshop it becomes less about the actual sequence and more about technique and presentation. Also the teacher will spot things which I have missed and equally I will spot things the teacher has inadvertent left out. Furthermore I really need to keep my repertoire alive in long term, to that end, I have email one of regular teachers for private coaching of this list, otherwise the memory will soon fade. I cant wait to see the next in the series “One teacher or Two”, and there’s me considering 5 teachers in one day.

I would really love to do this one as there is very little taught on mime these days, I love using mime in some of my own choreography, but unfortunately I'm tied up this weekend. That really is the one that got away. Oh poo!

A bit of an unusual night tonight at ENB, firstly I was hoping to get a bit of practice in the studio 15 minute before class began, but there were two ENB professional dancers doing a Pas de Deux from Giselle, me and several other girls watched in amazement, if only I thought, I guess they did too. They were fantastic, so I gave them a little clap at the end and got at curtsy and bow from them which was nice. I was hoping to run through the beginning of Giselle’s first variation from Act 1, but unfortunately I didn’t get the chance. However after work at the barre in level 2, when every one else was either stretching or getting a drink of water, I walked it through for spatial awareness, without arm or lifting into high arabesque etc, as I don’t have room in my own studio, especially as a repeat of one piece, carries on in the same direction. Hopefully I will get another chance next week either at ENB or Pineapple. Both classes were good again. My level 2 teacher was still absent, so this time we had my previous level 1 teacher as she had just returned from teaching ballet in the Caribbean. It was a nice fun class but I did get corrected a couple of times for my arms not being rounded enough, but she always gave me lots of feedback. A few more pirouettes in that class but not a lot in the way of sequences this time. In Level 3, the work at the barre is always changing, I think is to keep us on our toes and alert, different combined movements, and different port de bras. We seem to be concentrating a lot on balance and turnout this time. Still a lot of tidying up of old sequences, class size is dwindling too, but I guess some of that are holidays. Unfortunately it was the last week for my regular level 3 teacher, although she will be back next term. Not sure who we will have for next week our final week. I shall repeat the same two classes next term, taking us up to Christmas, then change the day to Mondays in the new year, so I can attend LAB on Tuesdays. One of my friends in our level 3 class is joining LAB next week, I’m interested to see how she gets on.

Both Giselle and Swan Lake Workshops booked, so I get the 2ORMORE 10% discount.

Swanprincess I have PM-ed you. The 11 week Ballet Performance course does not start until next year, so it looks as if I am out, as I will be with LAB at Sadler's Wells, was hoping it was this year, pre LAB. But you cant win them all.

Hi Lin Well done. Thanks girls, for the video examples, they are all fantastic but I personally like the Natalia Osipova the best. However Marianela Nunez has lovely arm movements, I guess I may boro some of them, but I love what appears to be a slower tempo for Gelsey Kirkland, her movements are quite precise and easy to see and I guess better to learn from. They all have subtle differences; I guess I will end up with a mishmash of them all.

Hi Lin Can you go to properties on an IPad (As I don't have anything that modern)too poor, if so go Copy URL, I usually paste it in notepad just to check its there, and then into the normal text area of the post. Mostly it displays the Video directly, but sometimes just it shows the link highlighted in blue, as in one of my previous posts. I also note from Alina's version it is clearly a Rond de Jambe from the rotation of the leg and not a Ballonne a I first thought.

Its the same thing This is what I mean http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Nw1OAP0BqTU

Lin Can you drop the Youtube links to the examples you mentioned, they all help.

Hi swanprincess They don't state an age limit, but I have had young teens in the classes before, however I am speaking to them on Monday and I will ask them for you. Hi Janet I had already seen your BRB posting, I did their Insight class back in March, I guess I'm getting a bit picky now, although I like the idea of Sleeping Beauty as I have already covered 4 of the solo variations.

Hi Lin Thanks for the name of that movement; I couldn’t find it in my Video Dictionary of Classical Ballet. However a search on the net revealed this definition: Emboîté relevé en tournant [ah-bwa-TAY r(u)l VAY ah toor-NAH] (Fr. fit together step; pulled up; turning) A composite step performed en pointes consisting of three actions which make a full turn. The dancer begins in 5th position en demi-plié with the working foot behind, arms in 3rd position; she executes a relevé passé devant 2 to 1 travelling slightly along the line of dance, bringing the back foot to retiré devant and changing the arms to 3rd while making 1/2-turn en dedans; she then steps under the body line and lifts the other leg to retiré devant while making 1/2-turn en dehors to complete the full turn with the arms changing to 3rd position; and she finishes en demi-plié. Often performed en diagonale. That sounds quite doable. I am sure your right about the simplification, our teacher Rejane at City Academy is more likely to spit the class in two, one group doing the simplified version and the other doing the more challenging. It will most definitely be adapted to the capabilities the class. For me, I’m pre-empting things by learning the sequence the best I can from various video examples, furthermore I have email one of my teachers that has provided me with personal tuition in the past, to continue this with repertoire work, basically going through what I have done on these various workshops and keeping them refreshed, but at the same time tidying up my technique. As it an awful shame to loos what we have learnt after a week or two. Unfortunately I’m unlikely to get any advance tuition on this one before the workshop, just my own practice and familiarisation. However it will be added to the list for refreshing. For Swan Lake in December I intend to get advance tuition, especially as I have danced both scenes before.

Hi Lin Yes that’s what I understood from your comments, I did a Romeo and Juliet Workshop with them, so did one of the girls with us at Chelsea Ballet Summer school, that how she found out about Chelsea. RAD are not particularly good at promoting their courses, they are often hidden under other things, as was their proposed Swan Lake at Birmingham, they told me about that one after the closing date, although they did reopen it for me, unfortunately too few dancers applied and so it didn’t fly. That why I try and do my bit in promoting these course. As I think you know I intend to join LAB after Christmas, I view the City Academy performance one in the same sort of light, but it really does have to be worthwhile, it must be at least two hours in duration as a day that does not conflict with my better classes particularly those that are planning performances. I also need some sort of syllabus including what repertoire is being taught. I really does need to be a good quality training programme, then and only then will I consider it.

Hi Lin The Hopping Ballonne’s can come off the list now, I’m happy I will be able to do them in time, I have already completed the set of 6+6+6+6, so that’s on the back burner of strength building now. I see there is something that looks like a half turn en dehors grand pirouette or an renversé, not sure which it is, as its so short. But I have only done one of those once at my Stamford class, I think there they called it a renversé, so that’s another on the list for me. Another tricky one I have not come across before is a pirouette where you switch pivoting legs midway through, you can see these at 1.05 minute and at 1.08 minutes, I really don’t know what these are called, perhaps some of the experts on this forum can help us out here