Michelle_Richer

Lin: Steady on, you need to save yourself for Swan Lake at the ROH, you have some Pose turns at the end of Odette’s solo to do. What type of lame duck turns were you doing, similar to the one Rejane showed us at the Giselle workshop. I prefer to start with a fondu on the supporting leg and a pas de basque with the gesturing leg, then into a type of soutenu which brings you back to the prep position again, I love them as travelling turns and with the fondu, the up and down is far more dramatic, but I think they look lovely and so do my Salsa friends when I get a chance to practice them on our wide open dance floor. I’m really looking forward to Thursday when I get the Hall to myself after our local ballet class. DavidW: That’s not a US UK thing; those terms are used over here and also Jete when done at the barre. At Lincoln we came up with the convention that a degagés was 2 inches from the floor or 20 degrees with the gesturing foot, a glissés was 3 to 4 inches or 45 degrees, we never accommodated a jete at the barre, but it is a term used at ENB and City Academy.

Hi Fiz I've drop a second link in, copy it into your URL address bar, it should run then. I also like the fact that they have included what Northern Ballet call a Pas de point (1.59 minutes), however our arm were in second, at ENB the front arm stretch was much longer almost to the foot but created a good line with the back arm, however the back foot remained on demi, it could not be grounded. but I guess that's different variations of the same move.

Hi Lin and Fiz You might find this clip interesting, the Grand Jete entournat is right at the end, I really love the technique of most of these moves as we have done many of them at ENB and Stamford, but they certainly do not look that good even from our teachers. www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKXAeQqf-lk http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=PKXAeQqf-lk‎ Follow the link, not sure why its not displaying the video.

Yes Lin we were taught to do that as a scissor kick as you describe a couple of weeks ago but we didn't spend very long on it, but then our teacher was off, she is not there this week so we are doing Extended barre with another teacher who is also a class member at our class, she has newly qualified in this and has her own class on Thursdays which I cannot make. Extended barre is very aerobic.

As I said there are two listings, this is the other: http://www.ballet.org.uk/whats-on/lecorsaire/adult-ballet-workshop-le-corsaire/

Yes it does, this is what the link says: Event / Activity details Oxford, The Old Fire Station, Oxford 30 Oct 2013 18:00 – 20:00 £10 Single / £20 Youth Workshop and Adult Workshop There are two links to the ENB site but this wording is identical on both.

Sheer determination and forward planning. Today was a sort of ballet free day, but went to Salsa tonight, but my energy level is now waning a bit. I have at least today got all my equipment ready for my repertoire sessions on Thursdays at our local hall, the same my teacher uses for our local ballet class. There is no time Monday to Wednesday to do very much as its chock a block with ballet and fitness training, at least I wont be doing the Leeds run for the next three weeks, so Tuesdays are a little lighter, with Dance Fever class (Fusion of ballet and Latin), Pineapple and two ENB classes.

Already booked on it, and the Nutcracker too. I am also talking to Matt at ENB as what scene(s) they are teaching.

Because I don't wish to move it, and I'm not going too. I'm staying put.

Awwww that going to be really hard, but Ill try

Hi Balleteacher It’s nice of you to drop by into this thread, and also that’s a very interesting question you have. My perspective is, the situation that occurred on the forum was the catalyst. In any case I was never going to be just anything, I’m definite not one in a crowd, you could say I’m bit of a loner and but highly motivated, however I’m still happy to dance as part of a corps de ballet, but my real passion is solo. So the black swan image seems to fit. Although I may come over as hard hearted, it has taken me months to tell my local teacher I was looking to booking the same venue for my repertoire practice as we use for our class for fear of upsetting her. It also made sense to utilise the time slot immediately after our ballet class that made things even harder. I finally spoke to her today before making the final booking. The last thing I wanted to do was hurt her as we have a really good relationship, she seems quite happy with that. I think its also important that I discourage other students from staying behind to watch as I in no way want to appear to undermined my teacher in any way. I’m just hoping from time to time she stays behind; I would really be honoured by that.

Firstly the suggestion that I write a blog elsewhere is a non starter. I made it clear on page one of this thread what I intended to do and also I did not own this thread, so it’s free for others to contribute too. Others ballet class experiences are contained on other threads too, so what I’ve been doing is not unusual or unreasonable. I know my posting recently have been quite long, but then I’m not like someone who is only doing one class a week and little in the way of firm goals for the future. If I do twelve time the classes plus lots of other ballet related activity, it’s likely I have a lot more to share. That’s the way it is, also my untraditional introduction, progression and determination in ballet seems to have attracted a lot of criticisms, I guess I will always be surrounded by controversy and the black swan image. At least we won’t be short of a conversational piece at the next BalletCo Annual Lunch, as I fully intend to be there, but please that is not intended in any way to be nasty. Lin I am truly sorry about the backlash and I hope you understand how much I value our friendship. Lin and 2DancersMum As for the food thing, yes I had intended to get something to eat other than Marz bars, however as the schedule was so tight I was using most of the contingency up just getting to each of the locations on time. I guess I was also high on adrenaline too; I just had to make it work. Either at Leeds station or on the train to London is logically the best times for a proper meal, and then with a high energy bar just before ENB in the evening would give the best solution. Lin OK about the Rampart Ballet class, I haven’t read about that one; however it’s very unlikely for me, as it will be the rehearsal at the week before our Lincoln show, which is a public paying one. If I was to let them down especially if they were to take up my suggestion of “Giselle’s Friends Dance” for our ballet schools part, I don’t think I would dare ever show my face there again.

Interesting, do you think I wasn’t hurt by the negative and unjustifiable comments I received on the “Going Back to Ballet” thread, and all because I go the extra mile and really work hard, as I say interesting.

Hi Lin Thank you but that’s what preparation is all about, that underpins the culture of all my training and career development and now my ballet too, which unfortunately is not seen or appreciated by some of this forum’s politically correct and complacent members. But hey, that will never hold me back. Yes the central line was an option, but I wasn’t sure which to take, and I certainly didn’t anticipate the amount of walking I did underground. But that was the whole purpose of this exercise to check out the feasibility. As for Danceworks, it was just a bit of padding as a substitute for Pineapple, to make productive dance usage of the available time (I never think in terms of having enough on my plate, just not in my mind-set, that's for others). I will check them out again but look for alternatives, as its only once a month I may consider private rep coaching from Rejane for that slot, that would be more meaningful but a little expensive. Northern Ballet will always be once a month unless we are working on a show, then it will drop to every two weeks which should be the case after Christmas, but I need to sort out timing with the LAB show and Northern Ballet’s so there is no conflict. I will also revert to Northern when ENB are on break so I can take advantage of there intermediate/advanced class. Since coming off that other tread it’s made me more determined that ever to succeed, as a result I have spoken to the people that hire out our local hall that we use for ballet class on Thursdays, there are several morning slots available for me to hire. I have been wrestling with the one that makes most sense, which is the slot that follows our ballet class. It means I’m already warmed up, and my teacher only needs to hand the key over to me, she knows I intended to hire the hall at some point, but I’m just a bit uncomfortable following the class, so I will see her tomorrow and start next week. I would have like her to provide repertoire coaching but she declined, so I must go it alone for the time being. The hall gives me an area bigger than most stages to work in, its well lit, good acoustics, a nice floor, quite slippy for pirouette but unfortunately not sprung, but it will do for most rep I’m working with. Where I require a sprung floor then it’s back to Pineapple. Once the rep feels to a reasonable standard and complete, I will be video it for my own feedback review and I have also ask my Angles Theatre teacher if she would review it too and she’s agreed. Where there’s a will there’s a way. As I’m perceived to be the bad girl on the block, I’m seriously thinking of getting one of Sheila’s black professional tutu’s akin to that of the black swan to symbolize my defiant and progressive character.

The Journey Continues Tuesday’s long distance ballet round has been upgraded to doable but not for the faint hearted. The day started at 4.30am so I could be ready to leave home at 6.10am. Had laid everything out the day before including all travel documents, maps etc. However when I got to Peterborough station, I couldn’t find the printout with the ticket number on it, although I was certain I had put it in my handbag, my handbag was full of just in case things, but no quite the kitchen sink. I opened up my pull along case with all my ballet gear in it including a plastic wallet of all travel plans. I found tee aim with the trainline.com booking; it was the second page and no booking number. I was watching the time and the big queue at the booking machine, things weren’t going well, I had to calm myself down and methodically go through my handbag, hey presto I found it. Lifting up my pull-along suitcase by it handle, all the stuff fell out, I had forgotten to zip it up, the expletive I used were not very ladylike. At least I was able to get my tickets from the booking machine. After that the trip to Leeds was quite uneventful, lots of time to spare to leisurely walk to Northern Ballet from the station. I did two nice classes with them, teacher and the dancers there are really fantastic and warm hearted people and I will to sorry I wont be visiting them every week now ENB are back. I was especially sad at not being able to have our usual coffee and chat session with them after class. For some reason I had 12.45 fixed in my mind for the train time and our class was supposed to finish at 12.15 and we over-ran by 5 minutes, I literally legged it from Northern Ballet, but running and power walking, I made the station in 10minute, half my normal time. I checked the train time in my docs, I was due out at 1.15pm. So it does look as if I can stay for a quick coffee at least with the girls on my next visit. While I was at Northern Ballet I wanted to drop some RAD flyers of for repertoire courses RAD are running, but Northern Ballet don’t have a notice boars or do anything like that, so I guess it an email to their heard of learning. The train from Leeds to London arrived at Kings Cross 5 minutes late; my choice of route was Piccadilly Line to Green Park, then Jubilee line to Bond Street then by foot to Danceworks. The distance walked trough tunnels and corridors in green park station is quite long and may not have been the best route, however I did just get there 5 minutes ahead of time, but that 5 minute was soon taken up registering me at Danceworks reception. My first impression of danceworks was not good, but that was due mainly to the tiny temporary studio we had to a large number of dancers, my teacher phoned reception to ask them not to send anymore dancers up, she said we would have a different studio next time, but I really didn’t get a chance to chat with that teacher. I made one friend there, a young lady early twenties with really nice technique, I think she was the only one there in a leotard apart from myself. That class also over-ran by about 5 minutes. My judgement of danceworks at the moment is open as I think I just caught them on a bad day, if its no better next time then I will drop them. I did get to drop the RAD flyers off to them. Getting to ENB on time was perhaps the most important to me, especially at it was the first week on a new term. Even with power walking the long stretch from South Kensington station to ENB, I only had 10 minute before class to get changed etc, but I made it. My first class (Level 2) was nice with a new teacher, when we were asked to raise our hands for existing level 2 dancers, I think everyone put their hands up, I don’t recall any newbie’s showing. I was surprised at this point that tiredness hadn’t crept in, but I was still going strong. Following that was my level 3 class, with a change of teacher too, this was the same teacher I did level 1 with and I really like her, but she has a thing with my arms in second, they are never rounded enough for her, so I have to make that bit of extra effort. She was out last night with a pen as a spike, to raise girl’s legs when in arabesque en liar, I didn’t get that one. It was a really enjoyable class however I did spot about 4 new faces, but most like me from last term. Again at the end of class I’m still feeling quite fit. My highlight of the day was going to the Pret Manager Café at Kings Cross and getting a hot pasty, as all had eaten that day was a bacon roll for breakfast at Northern Ballet and a couple of Marz bars during the day. I tried to sleep on the train back to Peterborough which was almost impossible with my bun, I tried laying my head on my handbag which was passable until cramp hit one of my legs and I had to move my body position. Eventually I got back to Peterborough a few minute after midnight, before coming home I had a couple of bananas I had been carrying in my suitcase all day, by this time they were getting soft, but never the less they tasted fantastic. My final car journey home some twenty odd miles and still the tiredness had not kicked in, arriving home about 12.45 am. Job done. Although the schedule is tight, there are a few minor tweaks that can trim off a few minute to add to contingencies, plus Danceworks would become the sacrificial part of the program to retain schedule at ENB. This will now be upgraded to a once a month activity, allowing me to still retain Pineapple and access to there studio’s and I also get to have coffee with the girls at Northern Ballet. Although the sleep that followed was very welcome, I was still up for a workout prior to going to my Body balance class at 10.30am.

Yes Lin she will be doing a separate workshop, but don't forget RAD are doing one too. I'm trying to promote those where ever I can so these courses can fly, as their (RAD) Swan Lake failed but was not properly promoted.

Hi Girls I’m back I’m setting up this thread up for everyone concerned with adult ballet, all are welcome, dancers, teachers, physio’s everyone. I claim no ownership to it what so ever, however I will continue to report about my journey on it, I hope others will too. Leaving “the Going back to ballet” thread left me extremely sad, especially as its almost like a record of my growing up in ballet right back to page 2, from my first leotard and how self conscious I felt, to my first bun, and of course my first show. I wont dwell on the hostility shown to me as its no where to go. The change of heart is simple, I’m on my second wind now, Last week I was extremely tired, not just from the Northern Ballet trip but the fact I was given a document to review for Wednesday morning board of trustees meeting, this arrived by email at 5pm Monday night just before my Lincoln ballet class, I printed it off later when I go back (after 10pm). I review it Tuesday using both train journeys between Peterborough and Leeds (Northern Ballet). Wednesday morning I hardly slept as I was freighted of oversleeping as I had to be away from home by 9am. Thankfully at the meeting I had two coffee jugs in front of me, at least the caffeine kept me awake. When we came to the document in question, it turned out I was the only one that had reviewed it with all my post-it corrections stuck all over it, needless to say I was furious. At the end of that week it didn’t take much for me to throw the towel in. That was then, now is now, time to leave that behind. Update from City academy, as these details are largely embedded in the Giselle thread but are not relevant to Giselle, I have posted them here: The Masterclass is a day where participants will experiment the full workout that a ballet dancer has to endure to be able to enhance their technique and performance. It will be divided in three sections: 1) Body conditioning for dancers (floor exercise) Focusing on line, strength, flexibility, core stability, and some ballet exercises on the floor. 2) Completed ballet class (barre, centre, diagonal) This include; adage, pirouettes, petit allegro, grand allegro 3) Choreographic work. The teacher will create a small classical ballet piece which we can be performed by the end of the master class. Don Quixote will not be taught now, as repertoire will be offer during the specific repertoire workshops. In Swan Lake, they plan to do the Waltz of the Swans, Odette's solo and Pas de Quatre (Cygnet Dance). If they do have a male participant the schedule may change to Odette and Prince Siegfried 1st encounter scene, Odette's solo and coda with Corps de ballet. I don’t know what other male dancers are likely to join this class, other than Tony, one of my friends from ENB, I will check with him on Tuesday. LinMM if you see this, I’m not sure if you are doing the Masterclass, I have already booked it, but I have to be away smartish at 6pm as I am due at the Lanterns Theatre, Docklands before 7.30pm. All the tickets are booked for my 500mile round trip between 5 ballet classes, the logistics are a bit tight, it will have to be a meal on the train I guess. I wont be posting back possibly late Wednesday night or even Thursday as I need to get a good deal of sleep in for prep on this one.

Wow what a reaction, it seems many of you are fond of giving me feedback but when I give correction back as to deficiencies in your argument, there is no reference to my actual content of the post, but the fact that I have challenged the thinking of the so called experts. I will always challenge and ask why if something doesn’t add up or make proper sense. I was born with a brain and I use it, I never have been passive and I make no apology for that. But what saddens me most of all, was the post from my friend Fiz. Like LinMM I thought this thread was all about adult ballet including our respective journeys that we shared with each other, but it seem I was wrong. Fiz as you were the instigator of this thread I will respect your wishes and leave, however I do hope we remain friends and I still hope to see you in Lincoln in that new pointe class when and if you move. LinMM No I don’t think you are a “wolf” and we are friends as always, I don’t think you should have told them I wasn’t fierce though, that wont do my street cred any good at all, ha ha ha As far as the rest of my passionate journey is concerned, I will leave that off the forum as the culture of its members are simply not ready for a person with my sense of purpose. I will keep things quite factual as regards new course and workshops. If I have something to contribute on other threads I will simply PM that individual, especially if it something I can help with. Taxi4ballet: your comment “I dare say that's because the teachers think that what adult dancers do before or after class is none of their business. Their public liability insurance is unlikely to cover anything that happens outside the class, and since most of them are probably self-employed then they are getting paid to teach for a certain period of time, and not before or after. They are probably also very used to people ignoring their advice anyway, so don't bother giving it any more.” I guess that type of apathetical attitude is typical of society today, in other word “NOT MY PROBLEM”, thank god I'm not like that. Also I would never support such a post.

Well it looks like the wolves are out. There appears to be a bowl of misinformation brewing, so let have a look at the main points being presented. Balleteacher: 1) “No matter what an adult learner wishes to achieve it is surely about quality rather then quantity”. I am no aware that these are mutually exclusive terms, that is, you are trading one for the other. Conversely is arguable that there needs to be a critical quantity of learning before you can achieve the desired quality, below that level of quantity , quality will suffer. 2) As I think I have quoted before, in the words of a wise teacher/ex professional dancer whom I respect, 'practice does not make perfect, it makes permanent'. Whilst I can appreciate what is behind the point, it not quite correct. Firstly it is harder to overlearn an embedded body memory but not impossible. Learning itself is seldom right first time, it done by repeated iterations until the desired response is achieved and of course that requires feedback from self and an observer. Picturesinthefirelight 3) “But in these days if being able to learn everything from YouTube videos one wonders about the need for specialist guidance & advice”. I have made this point before on this thread but I will reiterate it again as obviously the situation has been misunderstood. Firstly any new class I attend, I see the teacher and make a pointe that I am positively seeking feedback, as some teachers are reluctant to give it where the dancer has only come for a bit of fun and social contact. From the better classes like ENB I seek homework too, I am very proactive with my teachers. 4) As for Video’s, yes I use them and these come in two categories for me (a) Professional Ballet Training DVD’s and Video Dictionaries of Classical Ballet for reference purposes. ( Youtube examples of classical ballet scenes, and extracts from various classical ballet DVD’s for repertoire familiarisation. My intention is to go to repertoire workshop already knowing the full sequence of steps through that scene, my teacher then only needs correct my technique and anything I have missed. If I don’t know the scene, then its a lot of brain power to cram it in a short time, all the effort will be on remembering the steps, let alone being in time with the music, so much will be lost and it will at best be rubbish. I’m not interested in doing a workshop to forget what I have been through, I need it in long term memory so potentially I can develop it for a performance piece. Spannerandpony 5) “I would rather see a beautiful line from hip to toe with a lower leg, than line and technique compromised for the sake of leg height.” Again these do not need to be mutually exclusive. LinMM: 6) “Well you just might be able to learn a dance SEQUENCE of steps from YouTube but definitely not the refinement of TECHNIQUE and ARTISTRY which makes watching the true professionals so satisfying”. Probably not, but that will never stop me trying. 7) “That takes years of practice and correction and developing a certain feel within the body”. Years of practice I don’t have ahead of me, so I work with what I have now, but at an accelerated pace, hence my classes, as for correction and development of repertoire, as you know I am already seeking a private repertoire coach, if all else fail I still have the option of Rejane from City Academy who I have already approached.

Hi Janet If the stretches are done after barre work you must have warmed up. But this class like only a very few of my classes do have a proper warm-up session pre-barre, but the vast majority don’t including ENB. However like many of the higher classes, there is a large element of cold, possibly competitive stretching before the class starts. I have never seen a teacher intervene even to give advice to a class generally on this subject. I guess it’s become part of that culture, and as I said I don’t cold stretch. I have never seriously suggested others follow my aggressive strategy of gaining ballet experience, that is for me and it works for me, that’s my lifestyle choice. Most are happy to just go to class for fun and social contact as well as you say “fitness and flexibly”. I go the extra mile because I want more and intend to get it. You say “Accidents are always going to happen but it is surely sensible to take all the precautions you can to avert them”. I would change the wording slightly from “take all the precautions”, to “reasonable precautions”, as all can only be satisfied by stop dancing, a point I have often made on this thread.

Hi Sheila If I had done this ten or fifteen years ago, I would have had my own successful amateur ballet company within 5 years, I just don't have enough years ahead of me now, that's why I'm living as if there is no tomorrow.

Lin Perhaps you will summarise you findings on the other thread, I will report back on that one too, I'm reading Diet for Dancers plus I've had info back from a couple of supplement companies, I have other books that I must research too, Something I can do during my train journeys. Hi Balleteacher I don't disagree with what you are saying, but our advanced teacher at Northern Ballet, not only stretches after barre work but after many of the individual centre exercises too. We seem to be doing a lot of stretching in that class, but its always targeted to specific areas. and of course at the end of class.

Hi Lin I have done RAD's repertoire before, I did it with Romeo and Juliet at Cambridge, yes some was simplified and shortened, the level was similar to City Academy.

Hi Spannerandpony I depends what you mean by “no rescue”, any barre stretch could be seen as "no rescue" if you were to loose balance and fall over, especially the one I described in arabesque. I think all barre stretches should be considered as advanced stretches. In fact one of the girls at Northern Ballet fell over social dancing and badly bruised her hip, she was out of action for 3 or 4 weeks, alternatively she could have broken it, where do you draw the line I also acknowledge stretches should not be done when cold, but that is still common place and teachers do not advise against it, which I do find disappointing. I personally don’t stretch cold, I learnt my lesson when I dropped down into spits cold at ENB and it hit my muscles hard, that was no joke, thank goodness I didn’t do any damage that time.

Next Tuesdays run is, Leave home at 6.15 AM for Peterborough Station Train to Leeds, Two classes at Northern Ballet, Train from Leeds to London, Class at Danceworks, then across town for my two classes at ENB, Train back to Peterborough and car home arrive home about 12.50AM. Next class 10.30am Body balance at Spalding. Teacher ill tonight, so no pointe class.