Neverdancedjustamum

This year I’ve seen a good number of non-vocational students do very well with offers from top schools overseas for upper school. I wonder if this means that as long as you have the finances and time, full time at 11/12 years old really is not the only option. I’ve seen a handful of announcements on social media of young people who were not previously full time and yet were offered places in schools like Basel, Zurich, Cranko and Paris Opera Ballet School. This can be quite inspirational for those who opted to stay at home and not go full time at a young age.

That’s great to know. Does she do the classes whilst the in-person students are there or are they done separately? I did look at this but was worried it was going to be more of a “follow-along” class.

Thanks so much. Very tricky really as it’s a 3 hour time range and from my understanding SAs were sent a specific time quite a few weeks ago.

4 days to go until the deadline to sign up for the online body conditioning classes but as far as I know MAs still haven’t received the timings for the classes…has anyone contacted RBS about timings? I emailed them on the 11th July and received a response on the 18th saying they’re still in the “process of arranging the SA class times first, then we will be in touch about what times we can offer MA.” For MAs who have signed up, did the confirmation email or form give any indication of what timings might be? It’s very hard to commit to it without knowing timings and because payment is non-refundable. Leaving it this late probably means most other classes for next term are now confirmed and it will be a matter of whether the kids can squeeze in the online class amongst their other activities.

Not at all. They would be used to it. In my experience, even before I asked, they offer to hold pairs for us while we go around the other shops.

You’re right, I don’t think character pas de deux is in any US audition. However, do try and squeeze contemporary in if she doesn’t yet. I know this can make a difference in being noticed when auditioning for upper schools. I know some ballet teachers (not all!) underestimate the importance of contemporary but it can spell that difference especially when they can pick up choreo quickly. In an audition where most if not all have lovely ballet technique, those who are good, comfortable and natural at contemporary stand out. Note that a lot of local dance schools offer “contemporary” that in reality is more lyrical/jazz/acro/tricks. We have found it hard to source contemporary classes/lessons that is more aligned with the contemporary that upper schools look for.

I too am very interested in this because it must be a struggle trying to fit in dance hours when attending high school/secondary school. Some of the recent dancers I’ve seen who have been offered places in top European schools were home schooled so they can squeeze the hours in and I know some of the most in demand private coaches can only offer availability within normal school hours. This to us was a non-negotiable, for personal reasons, we always prioritised academics above all other activities. This is not just my decision as a parent but my DD in herself would never want to miss a day of school or even finish school a few days early for the summer to attend summer intensives (this is why we had to turn down US SI offers - most start very early, either June or early July). From experience we find it very hard to squeeze in dancing during the week hence my DD can only do two classes within the week. School work takes around 2 hours a night, and due to after school activities and sports she doesn’t get home early. We know this is nowhere near the hours her peers do in a week but thankfully she has no intentions of auditioning for full time (at the moment). But should she change her mind, I’m pretty sure it will be impossible to get the required training in especially as they go up the years and you’re against internationals who have extensive and intensive training.

I still haven’t received information on the online classes either up til now. I’ve ordered the uniform the day the link to order was sent but haven’t received the uniform either. I think it’s been over 2 weeks? I’m not sure how long they said it might take but I’m a bit worried about it arriving whilst we are away on holiday because sometimes our parcels just get left by our door.

PhDs however, are adults, and some already have established careers prior to undertaking their graduate studies. At early/mid 20s I would like to think they’re more equipped to handle disappointment and surprises in life. I also believe their options are not as limited as a 15/16 year old even an 18 year old in a field that is extremely limited. I always told my DCs I’d love for them to go to uni as this affords them the chance to find what they’re passionate about and love even whilst they’re in the system already. I was a product of the liberal arts system and was able to change my major after my second year of university. Even then my PG studies are only remotely related to my UG degree. But in HE, changes in focus and in institutions are completely fine and often enhances one’s experience.

The Russian schools do amazingly well, I can immediately think of two, one in London and one in the southwest, whose students do extremely well not just here but in Europe. Their timetables are brilliant, students can basically train up to 6 days a week without having to leave home at an early age. They also seem to have more performance opportunities. The downside obviously is that you have to live relatively nearby to make full use of such hours. Otherwise I can imagine it is easier for these parents to turn down full time offers to let their children train in these schools and then they can still stay at home with them especially when they’re so young. The list of schools these graduates go on to is very impressive - top schools in Germany, Switzerland, Norway…and regular offers from WL for their younger students. My DC isn’t a student of either of these schools btw so this is not an advert.

I always did wonder this too when looking at the profiles of the larger national companies - it’s quite rare to find British female dancers. Almost rarer even to find British female dancers who were trained in the U.K. I did notice there’s an increasing number in some Junior or Studio companies who were trained in the U.K. but perhaps not all British. In quite a number of the larger European countries there are a good number of Australians and Americans I find. Australians in particular seem very well trained even from a young age (lower school age) even though as far as I know they don’t usually board at vocational schools from a young age. The most prominent schools I can think of there are the Australian Ballet School and Queensland Ballet Academy - as far as I know they don’t have them boarding from age 11/12. A lot stay with their families until much older and then do very well when auditioning for upper schools in Europe and elsewhere.

I can see him in ABT Studio Co and if I were to guess that’s where he will be going. ABT Studio Co dancers do so well after the year or two they spend with the company often going on to the main company.

I must admit it felt much more pronounced last year and the year before. Maybe everything being online just highlighted it. It is also more in relation to specific school(s) and not all schools although obviously a lot of those offered by one school are also offered by the others. I do think that those who don’t train as much hours do have a chance still although perhaps in more limited ways for example, would only be offered by some other schools which may not be their first choice. Even if they get full time offers, I can only imagine it doesn’t end there. There must be the constant pressure to be at a certain level especially in schools which do not give assurance of the provision of so and so number of years of training. How else can they have the edge? The expense must go beyond that of school fees. To be fair, only some schools allow their students to still be associates and often only one particular associates scheme is permitted. And most schools would surely frown upon training outside that which they provide.

I need to add that I think this is more in relation to girls rather than boys I find. I think that differentiation must be highlighted as I understand why it’s usually those with boys who reply when this discussion comes up. It’s really not the same and I rarely see “hot housed” boys, to clarify. In the last few years or so I saw an increasing number of years 5-6 training seemingly more hours than full time students. If dancing every day, doing more than 3 or more sessions of privates a week (usually with more than one teacher), 2 and more associates schemes, physio, PBT, conditioning not hot housing then I’m not sure what it is. Last year seemed extra transparent, with the same kids being posted by various schools and teachers. There have been some interesting comments where you can sense the tension between teachers and schools commenting on the same posts. I can only imagine how awkward it must be when everyone wants credit. It’s easy to know how much privates and class fees and studio costs are - all added up, I am astounded at how much it must all cost. On the upside, if parents can afford such expense then maybe they don’t need significant MDS funding, if any, once in vocational school.

Oh I know exactly what you mean about local school hall classes. My DD still attends one class with her local dance school she’s been since she was 5. It’s not a ballet class and how she loves it. It’s just a fun, nurturing environment, everyone is just there because they love dance and find it fun, they’re not there to be professionals in the future or because they’re preparing for auditions. It reminds her of the days when it was just pure fun, no drama, no competition, no possible upsets.

It definitely has although I know this always causes animated debate on this forum. However, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind this is true, more for certain school(s) and I also need to point out that this difference isn’t as defined when talking about boys and girls. Boys I believe still have a bigger chance of offers on mostly potential especially at a young age. It is also important to point out that even in the top schools, the distinction you mentioned is more glaring in certain school(s). We have witnessed this first hand. I bet there can be interesting demographics that can be gleaned to support the difference you note. Check where most of the most recent cohort comes from, even geographically. Check where most of those who weren’t offered another year’s training come from. How significant MDS funding did those offered a place were eligible for. How much training did they receive immediately prior to their offer. Again, I think this discussion of differences is more applicable to females.

I thought that was the case and was therefore surprised when a previous poster mentioned it was only from the current Year 7s that this new programme commenced.

In that case, I might be in the minority here but I find it hard to think of Y7-Y9 as not vocational rebranded under a new name. After all, isn’t RBS a vocational school and its JA programme perhaps the pre-vocational (non-full time) scheme? I’m pretty sure I’ve also seen dance schools post about their students who will be starting vocational school in September.

Aren’t the current Y9s the first to be under that new set-up? In which case someone on this forum had previously mentioned that about half of the girls were not offered a Y10 place and of those staying, only 2 are British. I could be wrong but I seem to recall reading this on another thread, perhaps the one that was locked. I’ve heard of the numbers for Y11 too but would be hesitant to put on here as it’s been pointed out in the past that I don’t have a child who’s gone to that school plus this thread might get locked if it gets too specific.

This is what we found too, even after Brexit when British students were categorised under international fees. We certainly looked at schools like Dutch NBA, BTB Basel and TAZ Zurich. Even APG in Monaco worked out cheaper than full fees of some U.K. vocational schools. And all the schools we looked at would still have less fees even if we factor in possible MDS funding.

The new system I remember was met with mixed reaction. Most thought it was just a change of name of the levels but it does make it clear what can happen in Years 9 and 2nd year upper. I do still think of it as full time vocational training from Year 7, I suppose it’s hard not to. I also noticed a big spike in “pre-vocational” branded training schemes run by various local dance schools in the last few years precisely aimed at children and parents who wish to get targeted training to prepare them for Year 7 auditions. It’s a very different arrangement and feel to say, Paris Opera Ballet School’s Stage 6 or the first few levels of Dutch NBA. Especially for the latter it doesn’t feel like full time vocational training as such because the students still live at home, not boarders and away from their families. I remember receiving a registration packet for the local academic school where the younger Dutch NBA students attend. Academics were done separately from dance training so the kids were still very much a daily part of their community, doing activities and schooling away from their training.

The school I had in mind is in Europe and has cheaper fees than the RBS.

Language may be part of it admittedly but willingness is a big factor too. I used to work in a place that ran an exchange programme - students from overseas study in the U.K. for a term or two, U.K. students are sent overseas in exchange. Every year we were inundated with applications from students wanting to study in the U.K. temporarily even those with the minimum English proficiently requirement. We almost had to pay British students to go overseas even to countries known to speak English. We always wondered why. I grew up in a country where most people grow up bilingual so it was never an issue to go overseas, and most people I know have been placed in situations where they go and study somewhere where they don’t know the local language. Perhaps students should also explore schools beyond borders. However, it’s probably rarer to find U.K. students in upper schools overseas than vice versa. For example, I know of a highly rated vocational school overseas which only ever had one British student as far as I know (not RBS trained at any point). And yet every year British students, both from full time vocational schools here and non full time apply for that school’s summer intensive which is know to be an audition for their full time programme in itself. So far, I haven’t seen anyone get through to their full time programme. Language barrier isn’t a problem - they have a lot of American students.

No, I do not but that does not mean I can’t have my own opinion same as a good number of posters on this forum - the same way you have your opinion about the harsher practices of Vaganova and POBS.

I’m not sure why that stoops low? Presumably they only post those who get through to finals or those who get a place. I don’t think they name and shame those who don’t make it? Of course every vocational school would have their version of assessing out. What constitutes as “harsher”? My point simply is that it would be hard to pinpoint RBS training if for example those who are in their upper school are mostly not trained by them from a young age. In addition, I think statistically if you look at those who complete their training in those two schools you mentioned, there will be a higher percentage of French or Russian students who have been trained by the schools for several years and progressing through their programme through to completion. I also think, and happy to be proven wrong, that often when matters like this are discussed here, it is usually slightly different between males and females. It is not sexism in any way but just by law of averages and reality is, there are more females vying for places in full time schools for basically the same number of places as males. Again, happy to be proven wrong, but if I were to hazard a guess, it is often also the case that more females are assessed out than males.