LinMM

Julie just looked up MDS....it is music and dance scheme....series of government funded(on sliding scale) grants given to certain schools of excellence for kids 11-18(11-19 for Dance) who show excellent potential etc. the money is given to the schools who then decide who to award the money to.....I don't think parents can apply directly to the actual scheme. Higher the income the less money you will get......although these schemes never really look at families as a whole so are probably unfair to some.....but better than nothing. Sorry I shold have just looked this up first as probably very irritating to people on the ball about these things and should probably be more careful on what topic threads to comment on.....just got a bit hooked on this forum at the mo. Unfortunately do not have any DD's or DS's not even any D's or S's full stop but still like reading about other people's!!!

Just like to add that I'm sure Ballet has some specific biorhythms all of its own....on top of all the others!!!

Well I don't really have the major female hormone probs any more(thank goodness) but I think I do believe in general biorhythms.....that the body does tend to go in cycles(intellectual/emotional/physical etc. sometimes when these all come together I suspect you would have a good pirouette day! And if they're all out of alignment then you have an awful pirouette day.....most of the time one is between these extremes! I can understand the cold issue as this could affect the ears....intricately involved in any balancing procedure but have never tested with a pirouette yet!! Thanks food for thought again Anjuli

Couldnt agree more afab with your last post! Ballet is an exacting art. Anyway sarahw I really hope your DD gets a place somewhere and with funding if that is an issue as it is for most people I hope you will keep us posted with how it all goes eventually.

This particular statement was aimed at the parent who was trying to work out whether Tring or Hammond was the better school so it was assuming that her child was at either of these schools......where one would assume the basics of classical ballet would have been well taught!! It was meant in the context of deciding whether to really specialise in ballet or a wider field as her daughter likes ballet particularly at her age(11 I think). But it's a long way between 11 and 16!! "The standard of classical ballet" bit was in precise reference to the two schools not a general reference to the standard of classical ballet not being important.....hence the next bit of the post about if you are lucky to have an excellent teacher etc. I come from a ballet background myself but realise that as a parent if you don't, it can be difficult to judge when teaching is excellent. Of course in the general context your children have to be working towards a very high standard if wanting to pursue ballet as a career which decisions have to seriously be made round about 16. Not every child can go to The Royal Ballet School......as I myself found out at the age of 11!!

Thanks Julie I had sort of guessed that the DS bit is for dance scholarship but stupidly couldn't work out the M bit!! But yes I'm sure you're right it probably does stand for Music. That info about the open day at Hammond should prove useful for anyone thinking about sending their children there.....do the other Schools have an open day......this could help in making decisions.....though of course where you are situated in UK may make difficult to attend etc ( I too not sure how to post links etc can only do if email). thequays it's precisely these issues I had been wondering about.....some people are offered places without funding....some with....is this because the schools are already looking at Parental income to a degree? Or does a funded place mean they think a child has more potential at the point of audition? Anyway this may come under another topic thread. Sarahw in the end I think it's almost impossible to answer your initial question as for an 11 year old I'm sure both these schools would be excellent if you were to be offered a place. I'm sure the standard of classical ballet issue is not so relevant until nearing sixth form age where more precise career decisions will start to present. I was struck by someone's comment here that they had a really excellent local teacher and were doing a lot of ballet. It could be...if in this scenario....and our child is progressing well anyway......to carry on with a good thing and not worry about vocational schooling until the sixth form stage. One could always supplement this with summer schools etc to keep in touch with the competitive world out there but it's true there are some really fantastic local teachers out there and if you are lucky enough to have one of them you could avoid the problems of not knowing how long your child will be funded at a vocational school.....I hasten to add that I know not everybody is near to an excellent teacher.

In my experience of wearing pointe shoes I cannot imagine the shoes becoming narrower!! I hated buying new pointe shoes so was very bad for wearing them too long...so they got softer and looser if anything. I really don't know what this teacher means I'm afraid. It all seems to depend on exactly how much longer she will be doing pointe work....when is she taking this exam....because if she hates ballet that will be it probably.....so,not worth spending a fortune etc but maybe they want to make sure she only has to buy one pair.....maybe worth finding out when exam is....if only a few months away....why buy an expensive pair?

I think that now it has been revealed that your daughter has a few close friends only in this Yr6 group then the rehearsal seems to be more important for her and as others have said a smaller party with just her real friends could be arranged on another day. Some children have been together since they started school in Reception and so have formed close bonds but this is not the case for everybody. If this was a tight knit group I would have thought the leaving party quite important but maybe it will not be so much for her to give up after all. It is true we should honour our commitments whenever possible but difficult clashes do occur from time to time and occasionally we have to "let people down". Sometimes something really important can come up that you didn't know about when making a previous commitment so one has to judge where the greater loss will be.

Oh dear what an awful choice to have to make. Just a thought...it is a final rehearsal, so she probably knows her parts anyway and more or less what she's doing. Does she have a friend even teacher who could fill her in on any last minute instructions about the show. If she has been with the kids from year 6 since the year dot, perhaps this is more important.....but only she can choose in the end!

Thanks Pas de Quatre I will chat with her next week again as I hope she is fully aware of this then......but they would be mad not to have her in the classical set!! I don't know her that well was just chatting about all her auditions and what news she has had etc.

En dedans pirouettes. The main question with these is how deeply to really do that "lunge" forward? I have a suspicion I may be protecting my knees but seem reluctant to really get all the weight onto the front leg!! But should ones weight actually be somehow between the front and back leg or should it be right over that front leg ideally? The position of the body would be for example if turning to the right : right leg forward in plié right arm in first; left leg stretched behind and left arm in second. The body on the diagonal to the left corner etc. Any ideas or experiences with en dedans pirouettes?

A girl (16) from my Russian class has being doing the audition rounds and I can tell you she is a really lovely dancer. She wanted Royal but unlucky this year...as she is particularly keen on ballet but has just been offered a funded place at Tring that she will probably take up....Though I think she is still waiting to hear from Central..but for her she has got to have the funding. The fact that she is willing to go to Tring though means it must be okay on the ballet front! I'm sure Hammond is good too but I do know students there keen on ballet often choose elsewhere for sixth form. The teacher of our class has recently got students into the Vaganova academy in Washington but this is difficult to get funding for and is very expensive anyway apparently so some excellent places are obviously completely non starters for many students unfortunately no matter how talented. Now this will be a bit of a doh moment but what is an MDS?

Just Ballet will be emailing very shortly with my measurements! Great to see somebody still enjoying their pointe work!

Thanks Michelle for the video I found that very useful and it confirms something Ive noticed watching Russian videos....she extends both her arms out right at the beginning of the turn and brings them into first during the turn. I personally find this helps more than having the arms in third with right arm in front and then just bring the left arm in. The latter works well if just doing a balance but if turning I seem to do a better turn with this extension of right arm as well ......so,briefly both arms are in second and you can see this on the video. Talking about turning to,the right of course!! Anjuli at the end of the class this evening I practiced the exercise you suggested of just coming up onto demi keeping leg in retire and then lowering the supporting leg while keeping the retire. This proved beyond a doubt that I am not fully coming right up onto demi as found it quite hard to control the supporting leg down and keep the retire because my weight wasnt forward enough. It's much harder than coming down off the supporting leg and bringing retire leg down simultaneously. You definitely need more strength to do this so will keep practicing. I'm a bit tired right now but do want to ask about the en dedans turn as well. So perhaps tomorrow.

Well if you have been waiting since you were three years old Fiz probably time to have a go!! I don't know how long you have been doing ballet but I think you said somewhere you're in an intermediate sort of level class so perhaps you are ready. I think these days you can even get pointe shoes made to measure. I did enjoy it for a while but always hated the shoes really and often kept wearing old pairs that were nice and soft so not that good for your feet either!! The problem is it takes a lot of practice to do good work in the centre and so for adults starting later its hard to get to a satisfying use of being en pointe......however even if one can accomplish eventually some simple bourrees across the room one can pretend you are Giselle in the second act!! A friend and I used to muck about one pretending to be Giselle and the other the Queen of the Wilis and take it in turns one whipping the veil off and the other doing those manic hops!! But it started with the sorrowful bourrees !! So hope you and Moomin do have a go. Franziska has also brought out a DVD on pointe work......I think you can order from her website which I'll check out and leave a post. I have a feeling there will be two pointe work sections in Chelsea Ballet Summer school one is for beginners and the others more advanced...one am one pm etc etc. Chelsea is more flexible than some which are set prices.

Well just off to class now and for once will be really ready for the pirouette section after all this lovely advice so far and I will try to keep positive!! In fact tonight I will be annoyed if we don't do pirouettes rather than the usual sense of relief if they're missed for some reason!!

Could you have a go at the Chelsea Ballet one Fiz or are you away then? As far as I understand you can do as many or as few classes as you wish. They're all individually priced so that's how you work out what you owe. If you were travelling up daily its a pity the Pilates class is so early....9.30 I don't think people who live in London realise how expensive early morning travel is up to London and for me I cannot use my senior rail pass that early so bit of a nuisance. I'm sure either myself or Michelle could send you the programme. I'm more likely to do the afternoon programme which has : a roughly intermediate ballet class; a pointe work class(which I won't do) and a contemporary class which I might give a go though haven't done contemporary for years. There is an easier ballet class in the morning too about 11ish I think. Like you Michelle I may try and fit in a couple of classes elsewhere in the week.....at Central and London Russian......that's if I'm not too knackered already!! Ive given up pointe work now(see above post) but if you've not done before you may need to get some advice on shoes etc. Usually beginners pointe work is all at the barre anyway so if nothing else you can hang on to that! Have you spoken to any of your teachers about this.....what do they think? We can PM each other if you want except that I haven't initiated one of those yet either.....only replied to others!!

You are quite right to worry about people being on pointe who are obviously not ready for it!! Though most adult beginners pointe is only at the barre so you probably wouldn't break anything. I don't know where you are based but in London Franziska Rosenzweig does pointe work at Danceworks which I know she does safely but there are others at Danceworks and maybe Central adult classes too. If you are going to any graded classes I think pointe work is introduced round about Intermediate foundation or even grade6 level. To come back to your observations it's not just the feet which have to be strong.....it's the back as well so that you are fully pulled up off pointe so to speak otherwise all the weight is going down into the toes....not a good idea.....as my feet can testify to! This was because I was introduced to pointe work too soon at ten years old so now Ihave an ugly bunion!! However as adults feet are fully formed this may not be such an issue. Personally my pointe work days are over and would find pointe work at the barre a really boring part of a class much rather get on with some dancing!! But I can understand the fascination if you have never done it so have a go....find the right teacher to judge when you are properly ready first....you really must have good demi pointe work though. I think it's distressing to see people who cannot really pull up properly into demi struggling up onto full pointe. I'm sure there will be others on this forum who can also,recommend good teachers if you think you don't already have one.

Gosh I never knew reading about pirouettes could be so interesting......and how I agree with you Anjuli about men pirouetting. I was in a class in London recently and although it was not an advanced class there were three dancers from the Royal Ballet in it. The two men both did fantastic pirouettes with great controlled finishes and I just wanted to be able to do them like that!! But then who wouldn't!! In class on Saturday in Brighton we were doing a little enchainement with some pirouettes in the middle to music by Vivaldi and in that context my pirouettes came off much better....albeit only singles....but they were fast in the setting....I sort of enjoyed them in response to the music but I wouldn't have dared for two as some successfully did!! So onwards and upwards as they say. Am certainly going to perk up.this week in class when we get to pirouettes!! I also get the bit about practising......I think this is similar to the piano if you over practice a piece it starts to go downhill and I often find that the first time I play a piece is the best time before my head starts interfering with it all!! Are you saying Anjuli that you open the right arm before bringing both into,first then? This does seem to,be what I'm seeing on the Russian videos. With the plié some teachers say its only a brief quick down while others say to really use the plié (not sit in it but really use the Demi plié to push as well though would like to bring this up.later with en dedans pirouettes particularly. Anyway lots to get ones teeth into so far.

Not quite sure what you mean by the rotating plié Michelle. Is the sequence this lets say turning to the right from 4th: you place the push off leg(right leg) into fourth opening arms to,second as you initiate the movement and then the right arm in first as foot placed down the left arm staying in second; then there is a plié....you are still facing the front; next there is a push off the right leg into retire and a simultaneous bringing in of the left arm and it is only at the push off that the rotation starts; then there is the whipping of the head round to finish the turn both arms in first now; the final part is placing the right leg from retire behind you into 5th so you are then ready with the left leg in front with you facing the front!!! (I never thought I would be writing about pirouettes like this).its difficult breaking it down but I think the plié itself isn't rotated. However I would like to know how deep this plié should be etc

Thankyou balletbun and Adele have replied to your pm's. wishing you both and your dd and ds all,the best for the future.

By the way Anjuli I either fall towards the retire leg or backwards as you say!

Inspite of my successful balances in retire position just the other day one of my teachers remarked that when turning(from 4th on this occasion) I was already going into the turn with the retire leg still not off the floor!! So I really concentrated on snapping up that leg and on one occasion did a really good one and I noticed that my retire was in a better position more to,the side so my brain clocked that this could be useful!! I think this is one of the things you mentioned when pushing off Anjuli. I will practice the exercise where you leave the leg in retire and then come down.....as I think I usually do this simultaneously and Ive got a thing about even if doing one pirouette one should see that finish before placing the leg down into a hopefully neat fifth.....obviously if choreographed differently then one follows that. Just talking about bog standard pirouettes! I am much better at turning in pose turns(to the right at least) I wondered if that was because one is stepping out onto a straight leg.....because the use of the plié in a pirouette is another issue....how deep and how timed!! drdance yes I do understand what you re saying about the mechanics of it and sometimes one understands this in ones head....it's just how to get this firmly into the body!! There's also a very good book about "the line of aplomb" among other things by Roger Tully called "The Song Sings the Bird" this has some useful things about turning but more when a the barre. I've always been told its the incoming shoulder which turns you.....hence not to take the arm back behind the shoulder(if turning to the right this would be the left shoulder) but when I watch YouTube videos of some of the Russian dancers they seem to extend the arms each time rather than just lock into first position.

Anjuli great reading will reply properly later especially about the push off with the retire leg!

I'm not really understanding how this funding with a place at vocational schools works but it all seems incredibly cruel. The "spies" on YouTube just sent me a video they recommended for me about a group of 5 welsh dance students all initially at Elmhurst. It was heartbreaking that one boy had to leave because his parents could no longer afford the fees( inspite of the other students going to Desmond Kelly to try to save him!) His parents had sold their house to fund him the first year. He was a rather lonely figure at a comprehensive for a while because there was no funding from Elmhurst for another year for him before he had the good news that Hammond could offer him a funded place after all. However what I'm trying to understand (sorry having no lovely D's and S's) is when a child wins a place is this always only for one year? So has to be renewed year on year? It does seem a cruel system if this is the case and as one family seems to have experienced there may not be then a place at a local school! I always thought that if a child won a scholarship so to speak they were safely there until at least 16. I wish I could win the lottery and fund everyone's places for them!!