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Just realised from watching video what they are!! Maybe next year for me then!! Or even next lifetime the way I feel this morning after my mini London trip. (I guess hunking a big bag up and down the Kings Road yesterday pm didnt help). But I do prefer those then to the "swan lake" fouetté s as they look a bit more stylish. I think these are in that Pas Classique piece too and there is a Russian dancer somewhere in my YouTube favourites who is very good at them I'm sure from Pas Classique.

Yes it was sat eve saw the performance and there were a couple of cast changes......can't check right now as left my prog up in London grrr. All the principles were great but I just noticed these younger dancers really doing brilliantly as well who I'm not so familiar with. Olivia Cowley worked hard that eve.....she had been the Raven wife in the first ballet and then had a leading side role in Symphony which she did brilliantly as well!! The Gentleman sitting next to me who was obviously not a regular turned and said to his companion when the curtain calls were being taken "that's the dancer I like, I really like that dancer" He was referring to Laura Morera.

Gosh things move fast!! Only retired from teaching in the autumn and I hadn't realised school leaving age had gone up to 17 as a Law requirement (as opposed to a desirable thing). Although Ive always worked in the 5-11 range mostly.....so perhaps not so up to date with secondary. I wonder why this has been increased......no jobs probably!!! But no doubt a nightmare for some teachers who are trying to cope with pupils who have wanted to leave by 15 let alone 16!! I hope they are reorganising secondary then to cope with the more non academic students who now have to be there till 17!! Anyway have been in contact with Sydney friend and it is 17 in Australia that general Education of some sort has to be provided if attending a ballet vocational course. She has pointed out DancingtoDance that as you seemed to have found out anyway there is very little time though for gen.ed. if you were attending say a full time course at Tanya Pearson Academy as it is a very full day of dance and leaves you often too tired to then do the schooling requirements of Home Learning etc. so she thinks that the general education then suffers badly which is not good news if you are then still not successful in getting into a big senior school like Australian Ballet or Royal Ballet and so on. Of course you can audition for company's at 17-18 but she feels they are more likely to take from someone at a major senior school. So be prepared to have to return to schooling at a later date if you attend a full time course from say 15 in Australia and are not successful!! I'm not saying this to be negative....just realistic. There are a lot of students going through schools everywhere with very few places in Ballet Company's available. So you have to be good.....hence the hard work mentioned in the previous post! Again I want to mention the expense!! Tanya Pearson for example definitely does not provide boarding(I think only the Australian Ballet does) so parents have to find the money for this too!! In some ways Ballet is an unfair world because of this. If you don't win a scholarship parents will have to pay and this does favour the more well off! Most parents will do their utmost to see their children have an opportunity to be successful in something they really want to do but if there are four other children to consider for example this can become difficult. It is easier to get behind a child who is very single minded, focussed and hard working about what they want to do of course!!! So good luck with your research and I wish you every success with your progress in ballet and hopefully ballet career!

Also when I saw the Royal Ballet School students performance at the ROH two years ago Claudia Dean was one of the students who I thought stood out and I had no idea who she was then. Of course this pleased my friends in Australia no end!!

The name of the young dancer in the Royal Ballet who went to Tanya Pearson Academy in Sydney is Claudia Dean by the way....forgot to say in last post.

Fumi Kaneko is the name of the other dancer with Emma Maguire supporting in the first movement.

As was up in London this w/e (to see Raven Girl) I did David Kierce's beginners plus at Central this morning. What a joy his classes are!! He is very funny, cheers you up no end, makes you want to go for it and is also giving out some sound technique advice! I did my first double pirouette for about 20yrs this morning in his class!! Couldn't make the double work on the left but have now re acquired a taste for doubles as have been pretty reticent about pirouettes in general so far. If you want to do a ballet class and have a tonic at he same time I can thoroughly recommend his classes!!

Well Raven Girl on the face of it....dark, dramatic, strong storyline....is really my kind of ballet. So was I disappointed? No I found it held my attention all the way through except that some bits were a bit strange and couldn't make sense of them in the story context. The first comment though must be for the music.....I really loved this score sometimes very melodic sometimes like a sound wash flowing over you but always to me seemed appropriate to what was happening on stage. The film projections which I thought might irritate me didn't that much in this as again they always seemed to be appropriate and one or two affects were really quite beautiful. From my stalls circle seat I could see most of the dancing....including the 19th Century couple.....but only just at that point...and as one of my favourite new dancers Beatrix Stix Brunell was the female part a shame if some could not see this.....though only a minor part of what going on. I wasn't sure who the people in the japonese looking masks were supposed to be......a sort of Greek chorus? The other thing that felt strange to me that the Raven Girl has gone to great lengths to get her wings.....and there is a nice bit where she is finally exploring using them(difficult to do this I should imagine) and then in the next scene she is dancing with the Raven Prince without them. I can understand that they had tobe ditched or would have got in the way of the dancing(and it was a lovely pas de deux) but especially as this raven Prince appeared from nowhere it was just a bit abrupt theatrically. I saw it as now she has got her wings and become more her true self then she doesn't need them any more sort of thing. Perhaps the prince could be introduced a bit earlier...in the bit where she is exploring her wings...he, as a raven could help her and then they fly off together with the final pas de deux then following as a symbol of their freedom. HOWEVER I haven't read the book.....so maybe this is the very next thing to do before I go,and see it again.....which I definitely will. All the cast needless to say.....in the evening performance were brilliant. I enjoyed the Balanchine.....even though I often don't....as am not a great fan of lots of tutus lots of people on stage and almost too much dancing!.....to take in that is. But all the dancers seemed to be enjoying themselves and gave off a lot of joy so again brilliant performances from them and nice to see some young dancers looking so good too .....Olivia Cowley (again) and Emma Maguire and her other female supporting role a dancer I didn't know may have been Fumi......not sure of second name in first movement.

Thanks Janet will definitely have to watch that.....hope it isn't too gruesome though!!

Aileen do you know when "the secret life of cats " is on and which channel.....assuming a tv prog, thanks

Imagine if ballet dancers screeched every time they did a fouetté in Swan Lake!

Hi Dancing to Dance sorry about delay in replying but have been up in London going to see the Royal Ballet at Covent Garden. I am so lucky to live not far from London! Yes by General Schooling I meant all subjects.....nothing to do with ballet. In most countries there will be a law which states that children must study until a certain age before they can leave school. In UK this is 16. If you are good academically then of course you can stay on until 18 and try to go to College or University. This means if you attend a vocational school they either have to provide academic education until 16 or the parents of the children will have to be responsible for providing this for their children by home schooling or distance learning etc until they are 16 at least. You cannot join a ballet company in this country until 18 or very nearly 18. I will ask my friend about boarding at Tanya Pearson but as Pastel in a previous post says probably not. Also I am not absolutely sure about what age the full time vocational course starts at that academy perhaps it is 15 not 14 but as my friends girl who is same age as yourself is at a good general school as well she is not keen for her to start full time vocational just yet!! Or she will have to sort out her general schooling as well and my friend thinks she might as well stay at her school and carry on doing the many ballet classes etc she still has to fit in each week. Even though she is quite good at ballet it is a bit early to decide on a career just yet and she has told me that if she doesn't make it in ballet she wants to work with animals....especially dogs in some way. It is always good to have another plan in case things don't work out. Having said that she is very lucky and is coming to the UK shortly to do summer schools here. Are you wanting to find out about so many schools all over the world as part of some school project or because you just want to build up information for future reference for yourself? Just a final word.....most vocational schools are very expensive to attend unless you can win a scholarship so be prepared for some hard work in next few years!!

However I don't think in such a young girl this can just be a "ballet" problem. Girls whether they do ballet or not usually start these extreme weight issues in puberty....most usually 13-16. Even girls who don't go on to develop extreme probs are usual more aware of weight etc around this age. So if this young girl is already revealing probs there may be other underlying issues causing this that are nothing to do with ballet so does need investigating. Having said that however I would think there may be slightly more prevalence of extreme eating disorders in the ballet, modelling and indeed theatre world in general probably because of "being on view" so to speak but of course don't know what the official figures are. I

My friend in Sydney's daughter attends The Tanya Pearson Academy.....but she is not a vocational student there yet.....she is 13. You can attend classes there as a vocational or non vocational student and one of the problems seems to be that to attend the full time course.....which I think is offered from 14.... you would have to give up general schooling as they don't provide this.....and this is a risk at 14. My friend feels that attention is focused somewhat on the vocational students there but feels its too young to come out of general schooling yet. In UK vocational schools do offer general schooling as well until the age of 16 at least which I think is an advantage personally if you have that choice. There is a very young dancer in Royal Ballet who attended Tanya Pearson Academy will try to recall name.

The french players I had never heard of were Gael Monfils and Richard Gasquet. And of course last year it was Nadal / Djokovic final and latter is Serbian not Czech!! Anyway I hope Tsonga wins this year as the French haven't had a winner for a very long time and it would make my friends happy!!

There is no mention of how the child felt about having her dance lessons stopped!! If she was really keen this could have been a rather destructive action. I would have been devastated if my mother had stopped my classes at that age. Surely mum could have found a creative way round this problem. Chances are that if its not been resolved properly the girl will continue to have problems re her weight whether she continues with dance classes or not. Perhaps someone made an unfortunate comment at her school or perhaps that school had too competitive an atmosphere and she was worried about her ability really which then got focused on her weight. So at another school she may have been happier. Depends really how much she wanted to continue anyway but if she did it has not been handled well I think.

I am not sure I have fully understood what you meant Michelle when you say of your teachers"I do not regard them as a serious means of training" . How have you learned what you know so far then? Somebody must be getting something right if you say you attend some Intermediate/advanced classes!! You must be most unfortunate not to have ONE good teacher!! But perhaps you didn't quite mean that. I must be extremely fortunate then because during the week I have four different teachers and they are all good in different ways giving very different classes and I have had really useful advice from all of them. If I did not value anyones teaching or thought they didnt know their stuff I would not continue with that class. I'm sure you value your ENB classes and your Pineapple class at least as you've said how much you have enjoyed them and that some teachers have supported and advised you with choreography you are doing at the moment.

I'm seeing the ballet tomorrow evening.....haven't a clue who's dancing but am looking forward to both. I do have a good seat tomorrow row A in stalls circle so am hoping the problems some people seem to have had with the lighting of Raven Girl won't be too bad from there.

We all have certain things which for some reason we find more difficult. Pose turns are fine for me but not chainees.....I find it really hard to make them really neat and get the speed...together.....I either go fast and feet flapping around or I get them neat but am far too slow!! I know I should relish the chance to practice them but whenever they come up usually to finish off a petit or grand allegro I think "oh no not chainees! What's wrong with pose or soutenus turns!" There is one thing about levels which may need clarifying I think. Even within a graded setting....lets say grade6 as example....one can be working "at grade 6 level" without actually having achieved that level yet. There may be some who have just completed grade 5 so are new to the level some who are half way through the grade 6 some nearly ready to take an exam etc etc. so being in a grade 6 class is just a guide really. For example I can cope quite well with an intermediate class but I wouldn't say have achieved that level yet (I can't work at 90 for a start!). If anyone was taking an Advanced level exam for example whether RAD or BBO etc there are some pretty difficult things in there so you would really have to have mastered these things to call yourself advanced even though you may be able to stumble through an advanced level class. So having some reference to exams is useful if you really want to gauge where you are....even if you never intend to take an exam. Now I'm NOT saying you need to pass exams to be able to dance!! And for most adults it's probably irrelevant but just to keep ones feet on the ground about appropriate level classes etc. However I can see an advantage in a complete adult beginner with no exam history in not bringing any "baggage" to class and just getting on with the steps without too much concern which level of difficulty they are.....perhaps they will feel a little freer!! In both of the non syllabus classes I do there is a repetition of certain sequences over a period of weeks before they are changed which is great for getting to grips with them so by the 4th-5th week you usually have some memory and can increase your degree of performance which is satisfying.....again so lucky with classes. Unfortunately Michelle I don't agree with too much general videoing of classes. It's a great tool but should be done on an individual level for a specific purpose......otherwise I regard it as an intrusion into my privacy in a class. Obviously if your teacher is willing to let you video her doing some sequence that's fine. But except in very specific circumstances I would not like someone videoing me in a learning situation. For shows that's okay too......you are then agreeing to be on show giving a performance.....but not for classes sorry!

I think you are pretty unusual Michelle!! But in my slightly earlier post I did say that the rate of progression depends on many things including general fitness level and previous activity......including other dance experience......which you definitely have....which maybe why you can cope so quickly with doing more advanced classes. Personality does come into it too. I would say I have a fairly cautious approach especially in new situations.....others throw themselves in with enthusiasm and don't mind challenges at all! I would say though that a keen adult can progress much more quickly than a child but in normal circumstances it would still take 3-5 years to progress from a complete beginner to say Intermediate level! Some people are always outside the norm though!!

I wonder if your cat had a bit of oriental in her Porthesia. My cat Toscar who was half Siamese and half Burmese (supposed to be a Tonkinese but the breed hadn't been stabilised by then so when two Tonks were mated they often reverted back to type) Anyway these orientals like walking with people and Toscar liked this too. When he was a kitten I tried taking him out on a lead which worked for a while but he didn't really like it but did like to just accompany you. In fact I met my partner R while taking Toscar out for one of his early lead walks.....he had never seen a cat on a lead before so ran over to ask me what kind of cat he was......and could he try holding the lead etc and then one thing lead to another! Another thing Toscar enjoyed was playing hide and seek. He soon picked the idea of this game up. I would rush down the corridor to say the bedroom and hide behind the door....then I'd call out and he would rush down as far as the kitchen have a look there and then make his way to bedroom very slowly if I suddenly revealed myself he would then tear off back down the corridor to the lounge and hide behind one of the chairs and if you took too long he would rush out or pounce on you. And so this would go on till one of us got bored with it. He would also retrieve little balls and bring them back to be thrown again. But definitely "walkies" was something he particularly enjoyed.

As Moomin said It is difficult for adult beginners to find classes at the right level sometimes.....often they are ina class which is either too easy or a bit too difficult because of what is on offer locally So do have to make the most of that situation. Its okay to keep concentrating on the basic technique say at the barre but it can be a bit boring to never get past simple jetes and assembles in the centre practice.......however at the other extreme suddenly been thrown into a class doing brise volees and grand jete en tournant can be a bit daunting for some.......although a good teacher can always simplify the material for those who,need it if necessary. Luckily I do not have this problem personally as there is plenty of ballet on offer in Brighton where adults can take graded exams if they want to from grade one to grade seven!! So you can usually find your level in there somewhere! But at some point if you want to progress you may be doing things that are a little difficult for a while. I agree about some London classes as even though some of them are levelled nobody seems to stick to them!! So for example once I attended a class which was supposed to be for beginners and there were three members of the Royal Ballet company in it!! So, you ask why were they in this class.....because of that particular teacher(who also taught at more advanced levels) But what happens when a beginners class is filled with much more advanced students is that the teachers then tend to teach to the people there and forget themselves that it's supposed to be a beginners class!! But if teachers genuinely kept the classes at beginners level the more advanced would gradually stop coming! You do get the reverse though people trying a class which says Advanced/profess and they are really beginners. Though I would say this is more likely to happen where a class is labelled"General" . The teachers in these classes are more likely to teach up rather than down but I can see how some could be confused by this label......it usually actually means.....Intermediate- Professional!! Which a newby might not realise. Anyway people have to try classes till they find the class and teacher that really suits them and this can take a while. There is this risk of injury of course but if you watch people who are obviously in the wrong class they don't join in the difficult stuff(in the grand allegro section) and either leave at that point or just watch.

I love BillyElliotts advice and think this could help. Learning things from books will be much more difficult. I also love drdance's doing the port des bras without the arms! However that ability to project does take time for some people and I sympathise because as a young person I was very shy and introverted to and got annoyed that I didn't really project what I was feeling with the music. Now having lost some of those earlier inhibitions(though not completely) which comes with life experience...for me anyway...I feel very much more freer in my dance than I ever did as a teenager. But I have also done a lot of other dance styles since then including Indian dance which uses the face a lot and from the other end.....5 Rythms dance which isn't technique based at all .......but definitely helped to enable me to bring what I wanted into the dance. But feeling more internally confident is what will help and this is a developmental thing and may take time.

The Dome is the larger venue and where I saw the SPBT last. The Rambert often go to The Theatre Royal which I don't think is good for larger scale productions but may be okay for a smaller company. A few years back the Dome closed down for 18months with promises of much improved facilities etc and I thought goodie more chance of ballet.....but no such luck....nothing has changed that much as far as I can see. Both the other main theatres....The Corn Exchange and The Pavilion are smaller but small dance companies do go there from time to time. Another grouch with any theatre here is that any production is for a week at most and sometimes just a day or two so easy to miss. But back to theme I wish this company would do more performing UK too. They seem to go regularly to France..... And over a huge area there. Do they sell more tickets there do you think? When I saw them at the Dome that time there was a good turnout then.

Thanks Balletteacher for your first post.....and I do agree with most of the above I would say however that in Going Back to Ballet there are lots of people who are not actually coming to ballet for the first time. People have had varying degrees of experience in younger years ranging from just a couple to having reached nearly professional level training at some stage before giving up. There are usually less people coming back to it who have had no previous experience at all and are thus complete beginners.......and even then it depends on age!! Completely new who are in their twenties is different to completely new who are in their fifties or sixties!! Also previous level of general physical fitness through other activity which could also even be some other form of dance all makes a contribution as to likely speed of progression. I do agree personally with building up gradually and getting the basics but in a way I've found that Ballet has its own built in limitations......eg a complete beginner who turned up to an intermediate session would naturally be put off and seek an easier class as it would just be too frustrating for them!! In my own case for example I did a lot of ballet up to the age of 15.....the last exam I took was the old RAD elementary. I then had a break of about 7 years came back as very fit twenty something for about 15 years(no syllabus classes though) then gave up,again and had a near twenty year break before re taking up again (now in 60's) just over two years ago. This return was much more difficult as had very low fitness level......because of this only did one class a week for long time.......but on the other hand somewhere there is a muscle memory of all the ballet previously learned. So now have got a reasonable degree of fitness back I am starting to progress quite fast again and have been able to add more classes (4 a week at mo) quite quickly in last six months because I have the advantage over a genuinely complete beginner in this muscle memory thing.....it is easier to link steps together and learn an enchainement etc which beginners who may be good now on the barre work but not so good in the centre practice as they will not have had that previous experience. In one class I go to there are some complete beginners (of 2 yrs ago )who are younger and much more flexible and are good at jumping!! (How I am envious!) but I still end up helping them with enchainement s which on the whole I pick up quickly.....for reasons mentioned. So all this to say that most of the above(Balletteachers post) is good advice but there is always a bit of a mixed bag in recreational Adult Ballet classes!! Anjuli has the excellent advice too for true adult beginners who may not be so familiar with the ballet world on the other thread where I am awaiting her expertise on pointe work ......even though for me now...never again!!!